Aug 14, 2023 Commission Meeting

YEAH. WELCOME NEIGHBORS, CITIZENS AND GUESTS.

[CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:08]

THANK YOU FOR OUR TIME TOGETHER AND LET US HEAR ALL THE VOICES OF OUR GREAT COMMUNITY.

THANKS AGAIN. AMEN.

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. THANK YOU, MR. BOLE. THIS THIS REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF ATLANTIC BEACH, DATED MONDAY, AUGUST 28TH, WILL NOW COME TO ORDER.

DONNA, CAN YOU DO A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? THANK YOU, DONNA.

FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES.

[1. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

WHEN I LOOKED AT IT, DONNA, THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS OUT OF ORDER AND MAYBE THAT GOT CORRECTED.

IT WAS AN ITEM THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IT WAS NUMBERED SIX A OR SOMETHING THAT WAS UP IN THE TWO AREA.

DID YOU SEE THAT? AT THAT MEETING, THE ITEM WAS MOVED UP.

OH, WE JUST MOVED IT, AND SO YOU LEFT IT WITH THE SAME NUMBER.

GOT IT. OKAY, THEN.

I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THE MINUTES.

SO IF THERE ARE NO CORRECTIONS, THE MINUTES STAND AS SUBMITTED.

THANK YOU.

LET'S SEE.

SO WE HAVE COURTESY OF THE FLOOR.

[2. COURTESY OF FLOOR TO VISITORS]

DID WE DO THAT? YEAH WE'LL GO AHEAD AND START WITH THE LIFEGUARD PRESENTATIONS.

IS THAT GOING TO BE YOU, JOHN? OKAY. GOOD EVENING AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING US TO COME UP HERE.

MY NAME IS JOHN PHILLIPS. I'M CAPTAIN OF ATLANTIC BEACH LIFEGUARDS, AND WE JUST WANTED TO RECOGNIZE OR HAVE SOME OF THE INDIVIDUALS RECOGNIZED BY THIS CITY AND THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, SOME FANTASTIC YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE YOUR LIFEGUARDS, AND NOT ONLY HAVE THEY HAD A PRODUCTIVE YEAR, BUT THEY'VE HAD A AS LIFESAVERS, BUT A PRODUCTIVE YEAR AS COMPETITORS.

WE'VE HELD OR BEEN PART OF FOUR DIFFERENT LIFEGUARDING EVENTS AND THE LIFEGUARDING EVENTS ARE TO SHOWCASE NOT JUST WHO'S THE FASTEST RUNNER, WHO'S THE FASTEST SWIMMER, THE FASTEST PADDLER, BUT ALSO LIFESAVING SKILLS, AND THIS IS A HUGE PART OF THE LIFEGUARDING COMMUNITY, AND WE DON'T HAVE ALL OF OUR MEMBERS HERE TONIGHT BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM HAVE ALREADY LEFT AND GONE BACK TO SCHOOL, THE COLLEGES START UPS, AND BUT WE HAD OUR LOCAL TOURNAMENT, WHICH IS HELD IN-HOUSE, WHICH IS CALLED THE BATTLE FOR THE TOWER, AND WE HAVE THE CAPTAIN FROM THAT TEAM HERE, AND THEN WE HAVE MEMBERS FROM THE COMPETITION TEAM THAT WENT TO DAYTONA BEACH TO REPRESENT US AT THE ON THE LOCAL LEVEL.

THEY WON FIRST PLACE AT DAYTONA BEACH, BEATING FIVE OTHER TEAMS. THEN THEY TRAVELED TO NORTH CAROLINA, WHERE THEY TOOK SECOND PLACE IN THE SMALL GROUP DIVISION, MEANING A LIFEGUARD AGENCIES UNDER THE AGE OR UNDER 50 OR LESS ON PAYROLL, AND THEN WE JUST HAD COMPETITORS THAT WENT TO THE NATIONAL LIFEGUARD COMPETITION WHERE WE HAD OVER 800 LIFEGUARDS WHERE THEY COMPETED AGAINST THE BEST OF THE BEST, AND OUR WOMEN'S LANDLINE TEAM TOOK FIFTH IN THE NATION, AND WE HAD ONE OF OUR SWIMMERS TOOK 18TH IN THE NATION, AND THAT'S REMARKABLE TO HAVE SOMEONE LOCAL PLACE AT NATIONAL.

SO AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO BRING A COUPLE OF MEMBERS UP FROM THE LIFEGUARD TEAM AND SHOW THE TROPHIES THAT THEY HAVE WON.

NOT THAT.

[INAUDIBLE]

[00:05:04]

IF YOU CAN SEE HERE, THESE ARE WOODEN SCULPTURES THAT WERE DESIGNED AND CREATED BY MR. ROBERT KOVACS.

HE CREATED ONE FOR THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR AND ONE FOR THE GUARD OF THE YEAR, AND WE HAVE A BANQUET AT THE END OF THE SUMMER WHERE THE GUARDS VOTE ON WHO WHO BEST REPRESENTS THEIR GROUP AND DEFINES WHO THEY ARE, AND WE HAVE WE'RE GOING TO START OFF WITH MR. DEVIN LEOPOLD. WE COME ON UP HERE.

YEAH, AND THIS IS THIS IS MR. ROBERT KOVACS, THE DESIGNER OF THE WOODEN SCULPTURE.

IT'S AMAZING. SO DEVIN JUST GRADUATED FROM FLETCHER AND IS QUICKLY BECOMING ONE OF OUR LEADERS.

HE GOES ABOVE AND BEYOND EVERY DAY THAT HE WORKS.

I THINK DEVIN HAS BEEN CREDITED FOR WORKING THE MOST HOURS THIS SUMMER, AND HE COMES IN EARLY AND HE LEAVES LATE.

HE LOVES LIFEGUARDING.

HE LOVES WORKING IN ATLANTIC BEACH, AND IF YOU ASK WHO THAT RAY OF SUNSHINE IS WHEN HE COMES TO THAT TOWER, THAT'S THIS GUY RIGHT HERE. SO WE WANT TO THANK MR. DEVIN LEOPOLD FOR BEING ONE OF OUR FUTURE LEADERS.

SO THANK YOU, DEVIN. ALL RIGHT , AND WE GO WITH OUR GUARD OF THE YEAR.

MISS NINA IVERSON HAS BEEN WITH US FOR FIVE YEARS.

SHE COMES FROM A LIFEGUARDING FAMILY.

HER DAD WAS A LIFEGUARD AND SHE IS ONE OF OUR SHINING STARS.

NINA CAME TO US AS A 16 YEAR OLD FROM FLETCHER, AND SHE WAS PART OF THE SWIM TEAM, AND SHE SHE TAKES EVERYONE UNDERNEATH HER WING TO MAKE THEM A BETTER COMPETITOR.

LIKE I SAID, HER DAD WAS A LIFEGUARD.

HE WAS A NATIONAL COMPETITOR, AND SHE JUST CAME BACK FROM VIRGINIA BEACH AND SHE IS NOW A NATIONAL COMPETITOR.

SHE WILL COME TO WORK EVERY SINGLE DAY AND TRAIN AN HOUR TO AN HOUR AND A HALF BEFORE WORK DURING HER LUNCH BREAK, AND THEN AFTER WORK.

SHE IS DEDICATED AND JUST WANTS TO MAKE THE BEACH COMPETITION TEAM AND ALL THE BEACH LIFEGUARDS BETTER.

LIFEGUARDS, AND IF YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR A LEADER, YOU'VE GOT THIS GREAT LEADER AND THIS YOUNG LADY RIGHT HERE, AND WE'RE VERY, VERY PROUD OF HER.

SO WILL YOU SHOW THEM YOUR AWARD, PLEASE , AND WE THANK YOU.

CAPTAIN PHILLIPS, ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH AND THE CITY COMMISSION, WE ARE SO VERY PROUD OF YOU AND THIS TEAM.

SPECIFICALLY TONIGHT, DEVIN AND NINA.

THANK YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS, BUT YOU MAKE US PROUD TO HAVE YOU IN OUR CITY.

THANK YOU. SO, DONNA, HOW MANY SIGN-INS DO WE HAVE FOR COURTESY OF THE FLOOR? YOU HAVE SIX, MAYOR.

OKAY. SO WE'LL SEVEN.

OKAY. MAYBE MORE.

WE'LL OBSERVE OUR FIVE MINUTE TIME FRAME.

EIGHT. OKAY.

WE'LL STICK WITH FIVE MINUTES.

SO FEEL FREE TO TO SPEAK YOUR MINDS.

DONNA, GO AHEAD AND CALL THE FIRST PERSON [INAUDIBLE] 743 SAILFISH.

IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE.

I'M SURE YOU ENJOYED THE BREAK.

MINE'S A SIMPLE MESSAGE TONIGHT.

I JUST HAVE A QUESTION MORE OUT OF JUST CAUTIOUS CONCERN.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PROJECTS ON THE TABLE AND THERE'S A LOT OF PROJECTS COMING UP, AND THE FUNDING OF THOSE PROJECTS MEAN YOU GUYS DO A WONDERFUL JOB OF GOING EXHAUSTIVELY THROUGH THE DETAILS AND FIGURING OUT WHAT THE COST IS SUPPOSED TO BE, BUT THERE ARE UNEXPECTED COSTS THAT COME UP AND THERE ARE UNEXPECTED ADDITIONS TO THE PROJECTS , AND MINE IS A SIMPLE QUESTION THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER YET.

WHETHER THERE'S A GO/NO-GO PROCESS ANYWHERE IN THAT.

AS YOU LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO DO.

THE THOUGHT THAT DROVE THIS WAS THE DONNER ROAD REPAIR THAT'S BEEN GOING ON NOW FOR OVER A YEAR, AND I KNOW IT REALLY WASN'T A CHOICE TO KEEP DOING IT, BUT

[00:10:09]

THERE WASN'T REALLY A CHOICE OF WHETHER TO CONTINUE ONCE IT WAS BROKEN UP AND IT NEEDED IT WAS IDENTIFIED, BUT A LOT OF OUR PROJECTS SHOULD HAVE A GO/NO-GO DECISION IN IT AS YOU GET INTO IT BEFORE YOU'RE COMMITTED BASICALLY INTO IT.

SO I JUST WANTED TO DROP THAT QUESTION OFF FOR YOU TO MUSE ON AND SEE IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS THAT DOES GO ON CURRENTLY AND I'M JUST NOT AWARE MAYBE THERE'S MORE TRANSPARENCY ON THE WEBSITE NEEDED OR THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AND MAYBE YOU CAN AMEND THE PROCESS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU, MR. [INAUDIBLE].

RICK HARPER.

RICK HARPER 1810 SILVER GRAND DRIVE.

MOST OF YOU ALL KNOW ME.

MY BACKGROUND WAS THE ATLANTIC BEACH PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR AND THE CITY ENGINEER FOR TEN YEARS.

I'VE GOT 25 YEARS EXPERIENCE AS A CIVIL ENGINEER WITH A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN STORMWATER AND ROADS.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT ONSITE STORAGE AND ...WOW I FORGOT THAT.

ANYWAY. OH, INCREASE IN IMPERVIOUS SURFACE AREA.

MY NOTES AREN'T CLEAR.

ONSITE STORAGE WAS STUDIED IN THE 2002 STORMWATER MASTER PLAN.

IT WAS CODIFIED BY THE COMMISSION IN 2003, AND THEN THE PROCESS WAS FORMALIZED BY ME IN 2004.

I CREATED THE SPREADSHEET THAT WAS USED INITIALLY FOR COMPUTING ONSITE STORAGE REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.

JUST SO YOU KNOW, ONSITE STORAGE IS ONLY REQUIRED IF YOU'RE INCREASING THE STORMWATER RUNOFF FROM YOUR REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT.

IF THERE'S NO CHANGE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ONSITE STORAGE.

ONSITE STORAGE IS LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT AT ITS MOST BASIC ELEMENT.

IT'S AT THE BLOCK LOT LEVEL.

IT IS RESILIENCE.

IT'S ONE OF THE COMMISSION'S GOALS OR PRIORITIES FOR THE SEASON IS LOOK AT RESILIENCE.

THAT IS RESILIENCE BY KEEPING.

THE STORMWATER RUNOFF BELOW THAT WHICH OUR STORMWATER PIPES NO LONGER CAN HANDLE.

MOST OF YOU ALL KNOW THAT THE CORE CITY WAS REDEVELOPED IN THE LATE 90S.

PROJECT FINISHED IN 2000.

THAT SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED WITH A CERTAIN.

CAPACITY. IT'S AT THAT CAPACITY NOW WITHOUT INCREASED DEVELOPMENT.

WE CAN'T GO BACK IN.

WELL, THE CITY SPENT OVER $2 MILLION ON THAT BACK THEN, BUT WE CAN'T GO BACK IN AND INCREASE THE SIZE OF THOSE PIPES WITHOUT COMING DOWNSTREAM AND PROVIDING STORMWATER TREATMENT.

MANY OF YOU WERE IN THE CITY, BUT SOME OF YOU MAY NOT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, BUT THE ANSWER TO THAT IS PUT A STORMWATER POND IN HOWELL PARK AND THAT WAS VERY UNPOPULAR WHEN IT WAS BROUGHT UP BEFORE.

YOU CAN'T INCREASE PIPE SIZE WITHOUT PROVIDING STORMWATER TREATMENT IN TODAY'S HERE.

OTHER FACTOR RESILIENCE CITY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT IS JUST MAINTAINING THE INFRASTRUCTURE YOU'VE GOT RIGHT NOW.

WE SHOULD BE DOING A LOT MORE PIPE CLEANING.

WE SHOULD BE CLEANING MORE STORMWATER BASINS BECAUSE IF YOU GOT PIPES THAT ARE HALF FILLED WITH SAND MUD, WE'RE AT THE BEACH, WE GET A LOT OF SAND IN OUR SYSTEM, THEN THEY'RE NOT CARRYING AS MUCH WATER AS THEY SHOULD BE.

WANT TO GO BACK A LITTLE BIT TO THE STORMWATER MASTER PLAN LOOKS AT ONSITE STORAGE.

I'VE BEEN VERY FORMAL, VERY IN-DEPTH LOOKS, AND BEFORE THE CITY LOOKS AT CHANGING THAT REQUIREMENT, IT DESERVES TO HAVE ANOTHER SERIOUSLY IN-DEPTH LOOK. THAT WAS ALL I HAVE ON STORMWATER.

WANT TO THROW IN A COUPLE BUDGET ITEMS? I'VE GOT A LITTLE SPIDER ON MY PODIUM HERE.

I'M NOT GOING TO BE HERE FOR THE NEXT BUDGET WORKSHOP.

I KNOW YOU'RE DISAPPOINTED.

[CHUCKLING] I HAD DONNA HAND OUT TO YOU ALL.

A SUMMARY THAT CAME OUT OF A CITY BUDGET THREE YEARS AGO AT A BUDGET WORKSHOP, AND THAT'S INFORMATION THAT'S NOT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE TO THE CITIZENS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE COMMISSION HAS THAT ALREADY FOR THE BUDGET.

[00:15:02]

THE SPLASH PAD IS IN THIS CURRENT BUDGET.

ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS LOOKING FOR I CAN'T FIND IF IT'S THERE, BUT THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL BODIES.

ACCORDING TO THE SUMMARY OF THE FIRST WORKSHOP BEING AUTHORIZED FOR THE PARKS DIVISION.

OKAY. DURING THE SEASON THAT THE SPLASH PAD IS IN OPERATION, IT'S GOING TO BE ALMOST A FULL TIME BODY THERE FOR MAINTENANCE AND SUPERVISION OF THAT, AND THAT MEANS THAT OUR PARKS THAT DON'T GET ADEQUATE MAINTENANCE NOW ARE GOING TO GET EVEN LESS MAINTENANCE.

A LOT OF [INAUDIBLE] STORMWATER FEES SHOULD BE INCREASED TO.

THANK YOU, MR. HARPER.

GREG POWELL.

MY NAME IS GREG POWELL.

I LIVE AT 1871 SELVA MARINE DRIVE.

I HAVE TWO AGENDA ITEMS I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT.

I'LL TRY TO GET IT DONE IN FIVE MINUTES.

I'LL TAKE THEM IN MY ORDER.

THE FIRST ONE IS RESOLUTION 8A ON THE DONNER PROPERTY.

LAST TIME I ADDRESSED YOU ALL, I SUGGESTED THAT 45 DAYS WAS NOT ENOUGH TIME.

I STILL BELIEVE THAT.

YOU ALL VOTED TO MAKE IT 90 DAYS, AND I UNDERSTAND FROM THE INFORMATION PROVIDED WITH THE AGENDA THAT MR. GERRITY HAS DISCUSSED THIS WITH THE PEOPLE, AND THEY COME BACK AND SAID THEY'RE GOING TO OPT OUT OF THE AGREEMENT IF THEY DON'T GET A 45 DAY WINDOW.

I RESPECTFULLY EXPRESS CONCERN THAT SHOULD BE A RED FLAG FOR ALL OF YOU.

THIS PROCESS HAS BEEN IN PLACE NOW FOR OVER A COUPLE MONTHS NOW, AND 45 ADDITIONAL DAYS IS NOT GOING TO MAKE OR BREAK THE DEAL, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU ALL TO DO IT THOROUGHLY AND MAKE SURE IT'S DONE CORRECTLY AND I THINK YOU'VE GOT TWO CHOICES HERE.

YOU CAN EITHER NEGOTIATE LIKE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE ON THE LINE BECAUSE THEY ARE, OR YOU CAN ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTION, IF WE DO A LESS THAN ADEQUATE JOB AND WE INHERIT SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS IN ENVIRONMENTAL LIABILITY, ARE WE WILLING TO STILL SAY THAT THIS IS A GREAT DEAL? I THINK YOU ALL NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT THE OTHER ITEM I WANTED TO ADDRESS IS ITEM 3B I GOT THE IMPRESSION FROM THE MATERIALS THAT WERE PROVIDED THAT JONES EDMUNDS WOULD BE HERE TO PRESENT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CASE OR NOT.

THEY ARE? OKAY. WELL, I'LL TAKE MY REMAINING 2.5 MINUTES AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THOSE TWO ATTACHMENTS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE AGENDA PACKAGE I'M SURE THAT YOUR ENGINEERS UNDERSTAND THE DESIGN STORMS ARE NOT DEFINED JUST BY THE RETURN PERIOD OR FREQUENCY.

A DESIGN STORM HAS TO BE SPECIFIED BY FREQUENCY, DURATION AND A DEPTH OR INTENSITY, AND A GOOD EXAMPLE IS THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH DESIGN STORM IS 25 YEAR, 24 HOUR STORM, 9.3IN.

OKAY, THOSE ARE THE THREE THINGS THAT NEED TO GO INTO THIS.

IN GENERAL, THE RUNOFF COEFFICIENTS INCREASE WITH STORM DURATION AND DEPTH.

THE TABLE ONE IN SECTION 2.2 OF THE JONES EDMUNDS REPORT DOES NOT SPECIFY THE DURATION OR THE DEPTH OR INTENSITY OF THE STORM.

SO THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW UNLESS THEY HAVE SOME OTHER INFORMATION WHAT THE BASIS OF THAT RUNOFF COEFFICIENT IS. USING THE CURVE NUMBER METHOD THE RUNOFF THAT'S PROJECTED IN THE REPORT IS BASICALLY EQUIVALENT TO A 2 TO 3 INCH STORM.

THAT'S ABOUT AN ANNUAL STORM.

IT'S NOT A 25 YEAR, 24 HOUR, 9.3IN STORM, AND THEREFORE, I DISAGREE

[00:20:10]

I BELIEVE THAT THEIR COEFFICIENTS ARE OFF BY A FACTOR OF TWO IN TERMS OF THE DESIGN STORM THE ATLANTIC BEACH IS USING AND THE STORAGE COEFFICIENT IS OFF BY A FACTOR OF TWO AS WELL.

ATTACHMENT NUMBER ONE, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY THE SECOND ATTACHMENT IN THE PACKAGE.

TALKS ABOUT STUDIES THAT THEY DID IN THE OLD ATLANTIC BEACH AREA, AND I COMMEND THEM FOR SELECTING THE CURVE NUMBER METHOD FOR THIS STUDY.

THE QUESTION I HAVE IS WHY THEY DIDN'T USE THE CURVE NUMBER METHOD WHEN THEY WERE COMING UP WITH THE RUNOFF COEFFICIENTS AND THE STORAGE COEFFICIENTS THAT ARE REQUIRED BY THE STORMWATER CODE IN ATLANTIC BEACH BECAUSE THE CURVE NUMBER METHOD IS BETTER THAN A SIMPLE RUNOFF COEFFICIENT, AND THE THERE APPEAR TO BE OTHER ERRORS OR OTHER INCONSISTENCIES WITHIN THE REPORT.

I CAN'T PROBABLY GO THROUGH ALL OF THEM WITH EIGHT SECONDS LEFT, BUT I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS LATER IF YOU HAVE.

THANK YOU, MR. POWELL.

NANCY [INAUDIBLE].

[INAUDIBLE] HI, I'M NANCY [INAUDIBLE].

MY ADDRESS IS ON RECORD.

I'M GIVING EVERYTHING IN WRITING BECAUSE IT'S A LOT THAT I'M GOING TO GOING TO SAY, AND I HOPE EVERYONE KNOWS THESE ARE NOT JUST MY CONCERNS.

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THINKING THE SAME THINGS, AND I'M JUST HERE AS A MOUTHPIECE, REALLY.

FIRST, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK YOU'VE PUT IN LATELY.

I'M SURE YOU ARE EXHAUSTED AND I'M SURE YOU ARE EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION ON THE CITY MANAGER SELECTION.

HAVING SAID THAT, THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY.

NUMBER ONE, IN FACT, THERE'S SEVEN THINGS, BUT NUMBER ONE IS THERE WERE COMMENTS EARLY ON ABOUT THE PROCESS OR LACK THEREOF IN THE SELECTION OF OUR NEXT CITY MANAGER.

IT DOES APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN VERY FLAWED.

NOW, WITH JUST TWO WEEKS LEFT OF OUR INTERIM TENURE HERE, OUR CANDIDATE OF CHOICE HAS WITHDRAWN AND WE'RE STARTING RENEGOTIATING WITH OUR SECOND CHOICE.

THIS SEEMS HIGHLY UNUSUAL.

WE WERE OFFERING A GREAT SALARY, BENEFITS, ETCETERA.

I THINK MOST OF US RESIDENTS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY WE COULDN'T CLOSE THE DEAL.

WAS THIS CANDIDATE USING US TO GET A BETTER SALARY, FOR EXAMPLE? WERE THERE ANY BACK CHANNEL NEGOTIATIONS TAKING PLACE THAT THE REST OF THE COMMISSION WASN'T AWARE OF AND WHAT ROLE DID THE INTERIM MANAGER AND THE MAYOR HAVE IN, QUOTE, PRE NEGOTIATING? NUMBER TWO, WHY DID YOU CONSIDER ONE APPLICANT, BILL KILLINGSWORTH, WHO YOU WILL CONTINUE TO CONSIDER AND RIGHTFULLY SO, AS MANY PEOPLE LIKED MR. KILLINGSWORTH, BUT YOU'RE APPARENTLY STILL CONSIDERING HIM WITHOUT ANY CITY MANAGER EXPERIENCE, YET DENIED ANOTHER APPLICANT, EVEN AN INTERVIEW BASED ON NOT HAVING CITY MANAGER EXPERIENCE, AND IT WAS IN THE JOB DESCRIPTION.

IT DOES SEEM HYPOCRITICAL AT THIS POINT, THOUGH.

WE NEED TO MOVE ON, AND IF MR. KILLINGSWORTH IS IN FACT CHOSEN, I WOULD SUGGEST KEEPING THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER IN CLOSE HAND TO HELP WITH THE TRANSITION, SINCE IT SOUNDS LIKE THE OVERLAP BETWEEN CITY MANAGERS WILL BE SHORT.

THE THIRD QUESTION I HAVE IS HOW EXACTLY DID WE COME TO THE DECISION TO RAISE THE SALARY FOR THE CITY MANAGER? AND ALSO IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THE HOUSING ALLOWANCE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SUBTRACTED FROM THAT ORIGINAL TOTAL AMOUNT.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT JUST DON'T SEEM RIGHT.

WE WERE GETTING APPLICATIONS BEFORE THE SUGGESTION TO RAISE THE SALARY WAS MADE AND I THINK WE NEED TO ESTABLISH A CLEAR, TRANSPARENT, LEGALLY MERITED PROCESS FOR THE HIRING OF ALL OUR IMPORTANT CITY POSITIONS, INCLUDING CITY MANAGER, CITY ATTORNEY AND THE CRC MEMBERS.

MY FOURTH POINT IS HOW DID WE GET SO FAR INTO THIS PROCESS WITHOUT THE INPUT OF OUR CITY ATTORNEY AND HR IN TERMS OF THE CONTRACT? BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT ENDED UP BLOWING THIS UP WAS SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF VACATION TIME.

SO THIS AGAIN IS TYPICALLY NOT A NORMAL EXPERIENCE AND COMMUNICATION SEEMS TO HAVE BROKEN DOWN.

NUMBER FIVE, THOUGH, I'VE NOT PERSONALLY HAD ANY BAD EXPERIENCES, IT HAS BEEN ALLEGED BY TWO SEPARATE SOURCES ON TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS THAT THEY FELT THAT OUR MAYOR USED LANGUAGE WHICH WAS INTIMIDATING THEM WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO SEEK INFORMATION REGARDING THE PROCESS AND THE TIMELINE OF THE CURRENT

[00:25:05]

IF THIS IS TRUE AND THAT IS A BIG IF, IT WOULD BE VERY INAPPROPRIATE AND EXTREMELY CONCERNING.

AS ELECTED OFFICIALS, EACH OF YOU WORK FIRST AND FOREMOST FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS TOWN.

THERE WAS ALSO CONCERN RAISED, RIGHTFULLY SO, ABOUT MR. KILLINGSWORTH, EXPECTED LONGEVITY IN HIS POSITION, GIVEN THAT HE IS BEING CONSIDERED FOR ANOTHER POSITION, AND HE DOES HAVE A LEARNING CURVE AND THERE WILL BE A SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT WE ARE MAKING IN HIM.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO CONSIDER PERHAPS AN 18 OR EVEN A 24 MONTH CONTRACT WITH PENALTIES FOR EARLY RESIGNATION.

SO WE'RE NOT DOING THIS ALL OVER AGAIN IN NINE MONTHS.

MY FINAL POINT WAS JUST TO ASK FOR AN UPDATE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE DONNER AREA, POND AREA, AND I THINK MR. POWELL GAVE A NICE ASSESSMENT.

I WOULD JUST SAY, PLEASE LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS ON THIS.

THIS IS A LOT OF MONEY, AND AGAIN, IT JUST FEELS UNUSUAL THE WAY THE PROCESS HAS GONE, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, DR.

[INAUDIBLE]. STEVEN [INAUDIBLE].

HI, STEVE [INAUDIBLE], 387 6TH ST, ATLANTIC BEACH.

SO I WENT TO FLETCHER, TOO, AND I WAS WITTIEST.

SO I'M GOING TO TRY A LITTLE JOKE ON YOU.

YOU SHOULD HAVE HIRED ANDY STEWART.

GUESS I DIDN'T GET A LAUGH FROM THAT, BUT THIS PROCESS, I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO PILE ON.

IT'S A SHAME IT HAS NOT GONE SMOOTHLY, AND I WATCHED ALL OF THOSE MEETINGS OVER AND OVER AND WATCHED ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS, EVERYONE ON THIS DAIS, AND I THINK YOU ALL OUGHT TO WATCH YOURSELVES SOMETIMES BECAUSE I'M NOT REAL PROUD OF THE WAY THE MUDDLE CONTINUES, AND PEOPLE HAVE NAMES FOR THIS COMMISSION THE CONUNDRUM COMMISSION OR THE WHATEVER, BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE SEGMENTS THAT WE'VE SEEN THE HIRING OR THE APPOINTING OF THE CRC AND THIS CITY MANAGER HIRING HAS NOT GONE SMOOTHLY AND THERE ARE REASONS FOR THAT, AND ALL OF YOU BEAR SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS. LOOK AT YOURSELVES.

WATCH YOURSELVES IN THESE MEETINGS AND THEN MAYBE YOU AND I DON'T HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE I DIDN'T MAKE THE EFFORT TO BE ONE OF YOU PEOPLE, AND SO I APPLAUD YOU FOR DOING IT, BUT, MAN, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT, DO IT WELL AND DO YOUR RESEARCH AND FOLLOW THROUGH ON YOUR ZOOM MEETINGS THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE AND THAT SORT OF THING, FOLLOW THROUGH AND COMPLETE YOUR TASKS.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT, AND I'M SORRY TO BE NEGATIVE ON IT, BUT IT'S NOT TOTALLY NEGATIVE BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE GOT A GOOD CHANCE TO COME UP WITH A REALLY GREAT CITY MANAGER THE OTHER THING IS DONNER ROAD, HOW MANY YEARS AND, AND YOU GOT SOMEBODY LIKE RICK HARPER HERE WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON WITH STORMWATER IN ATLANTIC BEACH AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

YOU ALL NEED TO LISTEN TO SOMEONE LIKE THAT, AND MR. POWELL, THESE ARE ENGINEERS WITH INCREDIBLE CAPABILITIES.

CALL THEM INTO YOUR OFFICE, ASK THEM FOR ADVICE ON THESE CONTRACTS AND THAT SORT OF THING, AND YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW MUCH YOU'D LEARN THE OTHER THING IS, I THINK THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT EXCEPT OH, NO, IT ISN'T I WANT TO SEE A WALL BETWEEN THE CHARTER REVISION COMMITTEE.

CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE AND THIS COMMISSION.

I DO NOT WANT, AND YOU ALL SHOULD DISCUSS THIS.

WHAT DO YOU WANT? DO YOU WANT SOMEONE ON THE COMMISSION ABLE TO GO LOBBY FOR THEIR POSITIONS? WE'VE HEARD IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS TWO RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE REVIEW COMMITTEE SHOULD ALLOW A CITY MANAGER TO LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY.

WELL, I KNOW A LOT OF US WILL NOT AGREE WITH THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR IT TO COME FROM OUR CITY COMMISSION.

YOU'VE APPOINTED THESE CITIZENS TO DO A JOB AND A LOT OF US HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE APPOINTMENT PROCESS, SO BE AWARE OF THAT, BUT YOU APPOINTED THESE PEOPLE. LEAVE THEM ALONE.

LET THEM DO THEIR JOB, DO NOT BE LOBBYING THEM AND AGREE AMONGST YOURSELVES.

I'M NOT TELLING YOU.

I'M ASKING YOU AGREE AMONG YOURSELVES THAT THERE SHOULD BE A RULE ON THIS.

[00:30:04]

WE'VE GOT A GREAT CHAIRMAN.

SO YOU'VE GOT BILL GULLIFORD UP THERE, AND HE'S A REALLY ADEQUATE AND EXCELLENT CHAIRPERSON , BUT IN MY OPINION, THE COMMISSION ITSELF SHOULD LEAVE THEM ALONE, LET THEM DO THEIR WORK, AND THEN SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. [INAUDIBLE]. CAROLYN ZISSER.

GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS AND CITY OFFICIALS.

MY NAME IS CAROLYN ZISSER.

MY ADDRESS IS ON RECORD.

I'M HERE ON TWO MATTERS.

ONE, VERY QUICKLY, I WANT TO ENDORSE ALL OF THE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS THAT DR.

[INAUDIBLE] MADE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE QUESTIONS ANSWERED AT THE MEETING TODAY.

SECOND, I ALSO ENDORSE WHAT MR. [INAUDIBLE] SAID ABOUT A WALL ESSENTIALLY BETWEEN THE COMMISSION AND THE CRC, AND THAT IS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE HOUSING ALLOWANCE FOR THE CITY MANAGER AND THAT'S MY ESSENTIALLY MY THIRD POINT IS THAT IS THE INTERRELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE HOUSING ALLOWANCE FOR OUR CITY MANAGER AND OUR ATLANTIC BEACH CONSTITUTION CHARTER.

YOU'VE HEARD ME TALK ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION BEFORE.

IT'S OUR CONSTITUTION.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT IN THE CONTRACT THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE WITH OUR CITY MANAGER THAT THE HOUSING ALLOWANCE AN ALLOWANCE BE SEPARATE FROM THE SALARY.

THERE ARE TWO REASONS BESIDES TAX REASONS, I'M NOT A TAX ATTORNEY, SO I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT TAXES, BUT IT RECOGNIZES NOT ONLY THE HIGH COST OF LIVING IN ATLANTIC BEACH.

AT THE SAME TIME, IT ALSO UNDERSCORES OUR CHARTER PROVISION THAT THE THAT THE CITY MANAGER MUST LIVE IN ATLANTIC BEACH WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF HIS OR HER ASSUMING THE RESPONSIBILITIES , AND I KNOW YOU ALL LISTEN TO JOE GERRITY AT ONE OF THE MEETINGS.

I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER WHETHER IT WAS A CRC OR A COMMISSION MEETING.

I WAS THERE AND HE WAS ASKED, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT ATTRIBUTES OF A CITY MANAGER OR WHAT SHOULD WE EXPECT FROM THEM? AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID, THEY NEED TO LIVE IN THIS CITY.

SO, I WAS CONCERNED BECAUSE OF THAT.

WHEN I HEARD MAYOR FORD STATE ON THE RECORD IN THE VIDEO ON AUGUST 7TH THAT HE HOPED THERE WOULD BE AN AMENDMENT MADE BY THE CRC TO CHANGE THE OR TO RECOMMEND THAT THE THAT THE HOUSING REQUIREMENT IN ATLANTIC BEACH BE CHANGED.

I WAS DISAPPOINTED TO HEAR THAT BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT THE COMMISSION NOT BE TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE CRC.

ULTIMATELY, IT'S GOING TO BE THE CITIZENS OF THIS CITY THAT DECIDE IF THERE ARE GOING TO BE ANY CHANGES TO THE CHARTER, NOT THE COMMISSION AND NOT THE CRC, WHO CAN ONLY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO PLEASE, WHEN YOU ARE NEGOTIATING WITH OUR CITY MANAGER, MAKE SURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS THE LAW OF OUR LAND RIGHT NOW, THAT THE CITY MANAGER MUST LIVE IN ATLANTIC BEACH WITHIN SIX MONTHS.

I KNOW MR. KILLINGSWORTH.

I BELIEVE HE LIVES IN OUTSIDE OF THE BEACH.

HE MAY LIVE AT THE BEACH IF HE ASSUMING HE LIVES OUTSIDE OF THE BEACHES, I'M SURE HE WILL WELCOME A HOUSING ALLOWANCE.

I REMEMBER THAT THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DELINEATED THE HOUSING ALLOWANCE DELINEATED INDEPENDENT OF THE SALARY.

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THAT DISCUSSED IN THE COMMISSION BEFORE FURTHER NEGOTIATIONS ARE MADE WITH THE CITY MANAGER AS TO HOW MUCH OF THE

[00:35:03]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR GOOD WORK AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR LISTENING TO THE CONCERNED CITIZENS, AND WE HOPE THAT YOU DO TAKE WHAT WE SAY, GIVE THAT SERIOUS CONSIDERATION.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU, MRS. ZISSER.

BRINKLEY HARRELL.

GOOD EVENING, FRIENDS, ROMANS, COUNTRYMEN.

MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS, I'M HERE ONCE AGAIN IN FRONT OF YOU.

SO THAT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT I DON'T BUY MY LOTTERY TICKETS AT PUBLIX.

[CHUCKLING] I DID THE TWO WEEKS PRIOR, BUT NOT THIS PAST WEEK.

SO, REGARDING THE HIRING OF THE CITY MANAGER, THERE'S SOME INTERESTING THINGS TO KIND OF POINT OUT, AND THIS REALLY GOT KIND OF MUDDLED LAST SESSION WHEN WE THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS GOING TO ONLY TAKE TEN MINUTES AND YOU WENT ABOUT 40 OR 45 MINUTES AND IT STILL WASN'T SETTLED.

WELL I DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING BETTER COULD HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATED THE WAY THAT IT WAS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS KEEP THE SALARY DOWN AND KEEP THE OTHER BENEFITS HIGH BECAUSE THAT KEEPS YOUR 10%, 401K CONTRIBUTION MUCH LOWER RATHER THAN LUMPING EVERYTHING TOGETHER AND YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A TAX ATTORNEY, BUT I DIDN'T JUST FALL OFF THE CABBAGE TRUCK, AS THEY SAY.

YEAH. I MEAN, THAT WAS A PRETTY GOOD THING, AND TO TRY TO HELP MS. ZISSER OUT HERE ON SECTION FOUR OF THE.

CONTRACT THAT WAS PUBLISHED LAST WEEK.

IT DOES SHOW THAT THE SALARY WAS AT 185,000.

IT SHOWS THE HOUSING ALLOWANCE WAS AT 20,000, WHICH IS ACTUALLY $4,000 LESS THAN WHAT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED HERE EVEN EARLIER, AND THEN THERE WAS A $6,000 CAR ALLOWANCE OR $500 A MONTH CAR ALLOWANCE.

SO ANYWAY, TOTAL BENEFIT PACKAGE OF 211,000, OF WHICH ONLY $185,000 HAS THAT 10% KICKER FOR THE 401K, I SAY PAY THEM $100,000, GIVE THEM $100,000 HOUSING ALLOWANCE THAT DROPS THAT 401KK CONTRIBUTION, EVEN LOWER.

THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT NUMBER OF DAYS.

I KNOW YOU ALL REMEMBER 90 DAYS USE IT OR LOSE IT.

YOU ONLY CARRY OVER 60 DAYS FROM ONE FY TO THE NEXT FOR MILITARY AND GOVERNMENT SERVICE.

THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTION ABOUT HOW MANY DAYS CAN BE ACCRUED IN THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH AND THE LIABILITY THAT ADDS TO THE CITY.

WELL, THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT YOU GUYS NEED TO LOOK AT AND GET HR INVOLVED IN AND MAKE SOME CHANGES TO IT.

OTHER THINGS ON THE AGENDA.

DORA DRIVE.

HOLY COW. YEAH, I AGREE WITH PREVIOUS SPEAKERS AND CITIZENS SAYING IF THEY'RE TRYING TO BUMP THIS FROM 90 DAYS DOWN TO 45 DAYS, WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO HIDE? WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO SELL IT SO FAST? HAVE THEY FOUND A SUCKER IN THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH? MAYBE I SAY HOLD YOUR GUN AT 90 DAYS.

IF HE DOESN'T TAKE IT, FINE.

LET HIM WALK. $200,000 WORTH OF WATER AND SEWER IMPROVEMENTS TO GO TO ONE ADDRESS ON MAYPORT ROAD THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN A STAFF STUDY ON.

I DON'T KNOW WHY IT IS.

IT'S A VACANT LOT NEXT TO THE COVE, WHICH IS NAVY MILITARY HOUSING ON MAYPORT ROAD.

IT'S ONLY $200,000, BUT THEN AGAIN WE WE'RE GOING TO PAY $200,000 FOR A MURAL ON THE FLYOVER ON MAYPORT ROAD.

OKAY. THIS WONDERFUL THING, IF YOU ALL CHECKED YOUR MAIL TODAY, MAYBE YOU DID OR DID NOT GET YOUR TRIM NOTICE FROM THE DUVAL COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR.

TAX COLLECTOR TAXING AUTHORITIES.

OKAY. WELL, FOR MOST OF US IN HERE, THAT ADDED ANOTHER $500 TO YOUR TAX BILL JUST BECAUSE OF THE SCHOOL BOARD. ONE MILLAGE RATE, VOTER APPROVED THING.

SOME OF Y'ALL, IT'S GOING UP SIX, SEVEN, $800 MORE, WHICH IS LIKE A 13TH PAYMENT ON YOUR TAX BILL FROM LAST YEAR.

OKAY. WELL, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

WE CAN ONLY DO THINGS ABOUT OUR BUDGET, AND WHEN I KEEP TALKING ABOUT LET'S REALLY LOOK AT THE ROLLBACK RATE, THAT ONLY TAKES $755,000 OFF OF THE POTENTIAL INCREASE IF YOU STAY WITH THE PROPOSED RATE OF 3.1 MILLS.

[00:40:01]

THAT'S CALLED FOR IN THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT.

THERE'S ANOTHER $2.1 MILLION THAT WERE SPENT IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET.

EVERYTHING FROM THAT FLYOVER MURAL, THE SPLASH PAD, 16TH STREET CROSSOVER, THE CLAM TRUCK, AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WELL, THOSE THINGS ARE ALREADY BOUGHT.

SO THERE'S STILL $2 MILLION, $2.15 MILLION AVAILABLE THERE.

THE OTHER THING IS, IF Y'ALL LOOK AT THE BUDGET THAT HAS BEEN PREPARED SO FAR, AS CLOSE AS WHAT I DO, LOOK AT THE OPERATING COSTS FOR ALL THE DEPARTMENTS EXCEPT FOR POLICE DEPARTMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND PUBLIC UTILITIES.

THERE'S OVER $1 MILLION OF OFFICE SUPPLIES AND CELL PHONE AND LONG DISTANCE AND THIS AND THAT.

PLEASE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THOSE ON YOUR OWN, BECAUSE YOU'RE THE ONES THAT WE'RE RELYING ON TO MAKE THAT RIGHT DECISION.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU, MR. HARRELL.

HE WAS THE LAST SPEAKER, MAYOR.

OKAY. BEFORE WE CLOSE, COURTESY OF THE FLOOR, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS? OKAY, WE'LL CLOSE COURTESY OF THE FLOOR AND MOVE FORWARD.

OKAY. CITY MANAGER.

[3. CITY MANAGER REPORTS]

OKAY. I HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT OCTOBER.

IT SAYS OCTOBER 9TH AND OCTOBER 23RD COMMISSION.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SORRY, COMMISSION WHAT? GO TO OCTOBER, OCTOBER 9TH AND OCTOBER 23RD ON THE 90 DAY CALENDAR.

SAYS COMMISSION MT.

MEETING. SORRY, IT'S JUST ADDED TO ALL OF THEM JUST RANDOMLY.

SO DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A SPECIAL.

IT WAS ALWAYS BEEN MTG AND NOW IT'S MT.

I UNDERSTAND HER QUESTION.

SORRY? I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.

OKAY. THAT WAS IT.

ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE CALENDAR? DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? I'M MAKING A MOTION. WE APPROVE THE 90 DAY CALENDAR.

SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OPPOSED.

OKAY. MOTION CARRIES.

THANK YOU. SO THE OKAY YOU GOT MORE.

I JUST HAVE A COUPLE MORE THINGS IF I CAN, MR. MAYOR. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ON AUGUST 1ST.

THEY DID PARTICIPATE IN NATIONAL NIGHT OUT.

IT WAS A GREAT EVENT, WELL ATTENDED BY OUR CITIZENS AND A NICE EFFORT ON OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT THE JULY PARKING REVENUE AT 18TH AND 19TH STREET WAS $4,557.

DONNER ROAD OFTEN TALKED ABOUT THIS EVENING.

WE ARE HOPING, WEATHER PERMITTING, THAT IT WILL BE RESURFACED OR SURFACED ON THE 24TH AND 25TH OF THIS MONTH, AND.

IF ANY OF YOU ARE ATTENDING PLANNING ON ATTENDING THE.

FLORIDA LEAGUE OF CITIES SCHOOL IN EARLY OCTOBER.

WE NEED TO GET YOU ALL REGISTERED NOW.

SO IF YOU WILL GET WITH DONNA AND GET YOUR REGISTRATION IN, THAT WOULD BE GREAT, AND OTHER THAN THAT, I'M DONE.

OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. GERRITY.

NEXT ITEM IS 3B, THE STORMWATER STORMWATER MASTER PLAN REVIEW.

OKAY, AND I'D LIKE TO ASK STEVE TO COME UP AND SORT OF MAKE A FEW COMMENTS AND INTRODUCE GENTLEMAN FROM JONES EDMUNDS.

I APPRECIATE IT. STEVE SWANN, YOUR CITY ENGINEER YEAH.

JOE HAD ASKED THAT WE KIND OF GO BACK AND LOOK AT OUR STORMWATER MASTER PLAN UPDATE AND PARTICULARLY IMPERVIOUS AREA AND ONSITE STORMWATER.

SO I THOUGHT I'D PROVIDE A REAL QUICK HISTORY OF WHERE THINGS ARE AND HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE NOW AS WELL.

I'VE GOT, RYAN [INAUDIBLE] AND JARED [INAUDIBLE] FROM JONES EDMUNDS, WHO DID THE 2018 STORMWATER MASTER PLAN UPDATE, AND THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF COMPONENTS OF THAT PLAN RELATING TO ONSITE STORAGE AND IMPERVIOUS AREA.

SO IN 1982, THE IMPERVIOUS AREA LIMITATION IN ATLANTIC BEACH WAS 35% FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.

IN 1998, THAT WAS CHANGED TO 50%, AND SHORTLY AFTER THAT, IN 2002 IS WHEN THE REAL WHAT I CONSIDER MODERN DAY STORMWATER MASTER PLAN WAS COMPLETED BY CAMP DRESSER AND MCKEE PRETTY PRETTY WELL RENOWNED ENGINEERING FIRM AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT CAPITAL STUFF, BUT THEIR CONCLUSIONS IN GENERAL WERE THAT THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE CITY MAKES IT VERY SENSITIVE TO THE VOLUME OF RUNOFF DISCHARGE.

JUST BECAUSE THE HIGH WATER TABLE WERE FLAT, IT'S HARD TO GET WATER ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE INTERCOASTAL FROM PARTS OF THE CITY THEY ALSO CONCLUDED THAT NEW DEVELOPMENT AND

[00:45:07]

THEY DID A QUICK LITTLE MODEL OF THE HOPKINS CREEK AREA [INAUDIBLE] GARDENS AREA, WITH LOOKING AT ALL THE DEVELOPABLE AREA AT 50% IMPERVIOUS AND CONCLUDED THAT THE RESULT WAS A FLOOD STAGES IN THE HOUSES AND BUILDINGS IN THAT AREA.

SO THEY RECOMMENDED THAT THE CITY REGULATE THE PEAK STORMWATER DISCHARGE OFF INDIVIDUAL LOTS FOR 100 YEAR RAIN EVENT, WHICH IS QUITE A BIT MORE THAN 25 YEAR EVENT WHICH IS WHICH WOULD EVENTUALLY WHAT THE CITY AGREED TO DO AT THE TIME AND THEY ALSO RECOMMENDED ONSITE STORMWATER FOR REDEVELOPED LOTS.

SO THERE'D BE NO NET INCREASE IN THE RATE OR VOLUME OF STORMWATER RUNOFF.

SO THEN IN 2003, AS MR. CARPER ALLUDED TO IN THE ORDINANCE, 90O3180 ONSITE STORAGE WAS IMPLEMENTED FOR 25 YEAR RAINFALL EVENT FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES THAT HAD DEVELOPED IN THAT 2002 MASTER PLAN.

IN 2012, TEN YEARS LATER, THE CITY HIRED AGAIN TO DO AN UPDATE OF THAT PLAN AND ALONG WITH DEVELOPING A NEW CIP FOR THE CITY FOR STORMWATER, THEY CONCLUDED THAT BY FAR THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE MEANS OF CONTROLLING STORMWATER RUNOFF FOR THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH IS AT ITS SOURCE, MEANING ONSITE STORAGE, AND THEN IN IN 2018, COMMISSION HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT REDUCING THE IMPERVIOUS AREA BACK TO 40% BECAUSE OF CONCERNS OF INCREASED FLOODING, AND THIS WAS AFTER THE CORE CITY PROJECT, SOME OF THE OTHER PROJECTS WERE DONE.

THERE WERE STILL SOME FLOODING PROBLEMS, NOT HOUSE PROBLEMS, FOR THE MOST PART, HOUSE FLOODING PROBLEMS, BUT STREET FLOODING IN AREAS THAT DIDN'T DRAIN WELL.

SO THEY CONSIDERED GOING BACK TO 40.

THEY WANTED TO ROLL IT BACK TO 40%, AND ULTIMATELY THEY DECIDED TO REDUCE IT DOWN TO 45% BASED ON THOSE CONCERNS, AND THAT WAS IN 2019. IN THE MEANTIME, WE HIRED JONES EDMUNDS TO DO A STORMWATER MASTER PLAN UPDATE IN 2018.

THEY DID A VERY COMPREHENSIVE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM FOR US.

LOOKING AT ALL THE PROBLEM AREAS THAT WE HAVE THAT WERE IN THE PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING THOSE PROJECTS RIGHT NOW, AND THEY ALSO DID A REVIEW OF OUR ONSITE STORAGE RULE AND ALSO THE EFFECTIVE IMPERVIOUS AREAS, AND THEY PICKED A PART OF THE CITY AS KIND OF AN EXAMPLE PROJECT SIMILAR TO WHAT HAD DONE IN THE PAST, AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK EITHER BRIAN OR JARED TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT, BUT THEN IN 2019, WHEN THE ORDINANCE WAS CHANGED TO REDUCE IMPERVIOUS AREA BACK TO 45%, COMMISSION ALSO DECIDED TO MAKE POOLS WHICH WERE CONSIDERED PERVIOUS AT THE TIME, MAKE THEM 50% IMPERVIOUS.

THERE WAS A LOT OF DEBATE AT THE TIME WHETHER IT SHOULD BE PERVIOUS OR IMPERVIOUS, AND THE CITY SETTLED ON 50%, AND ALSO THEY THEY ELIMINATED CREDIT FOR PERVIOUS PAVERS BECAUSE THE EXPERIENCE OF THE FOLKS IN THE CITY AT THE TIME WAS THAT IF THE PERVIOUS PAVERS AREN'T MAINTAINED OVER LONGER PERIODS OF TIME, THEY DON'T PERFORM AS THEY DID WHEN THEY WERE FIRST INSTALLED, AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO BRIAN REAL QUICK.

GOOD. YES, SIR. THANKS, STEVE.

GOOD EVENING, COMMISSION.

GOOD TO BE BACK UP HERE.

IT'S BEEN SINCE, I THINK, 2018, 2019, AS STEVE REFERENCED, SINCE WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THIS VERY TOPIC.

GOING THROUGH SOME QUICK SLIDES, I WANTED TO TALK FIRST ABOUT THE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ABOUT WHAT STEVE MENTIONED ABOUT THE STUDY.

WHEN WE INHERITED THIS STUDY OR COMPETED AND WERE SELECTED IS PROBABLY A BETTER WAY TO PHRASE THAT.

WE LOOKED THROUGH THE WORK FROM THE PREVIOUS STUDIES AND GENERALLY AGREED WITH THE PATH THEY WERE TAKING FORWARD WITH THE MONEY AVAILABLE TO THE CITY AT THAT TIME, SO INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN, WE FOCUSED ON THESE THREE AREAS WHICH WAS DEEMED TO BE OF HIGHEST IMPORTANCE TO THE CITY.

SO TO GET AN UPDATED STORMWATER MODEL, THERE WAS A LOT MORE DATA AVAILABLE IF TERRAIN DATA, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT ON THE BOTTOM HERE.

SO SOME OF THE OLDER STUDIES WERE BASED ON THESE TWO FOOT CONTOURS WHERE EVERYTHING IS PERFECTLY GRADED, ALMOST LIKE IN A VIDEO GAME TO THE VERY END.

WHAT WE USED IS THAT FIVE FOOT LIDAR SECTION, WHICH IS IT TAKES THE AVERAGE TERRAIN SURFACE OVER A FIVE BY FIVE GRID AND ASSIGNS THAT ONE VALUE IN THE MODEL AND YOU DO THAT FOR THE ENTIRE CITY. SO YOUR ABILITY TO MODEL STORAGE THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM IS MUCH GREATER.

SO WITH THAT UPDATED MODEL, WE LOOKED AT CONCEPTUAL STORMWATER IMPROVEMENTS AND THEN ULTIMATELY ROUTED THAT INTO A TEN YEAR PLAN.

THIS AQUATIC GARDENS HAS KIND OF BECOME THE POSTER CHILD FOR WHAT CAME OUT OF THAT.

WE HAD THIS IMPROVEMENT.

WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS AREA.

WE'VE SOUGHT FUNDING AND THIS PROJECT IS ON ITS WAY.

SO THE TEN YEAR PLAN IS REALLY STARTING TO REAP SOME BENEFITS IN THE SENSE OF CONSTRUCTION VALUE TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE CITY IN TERMS OF DOLLARS RELATIVE TO THE PLAN. SO THAT WAS THE WHOLE EXTENT OF THE PLAN.

[00:50:02]

SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR AS TO HOW WE GOT HERE.

LIKE STEVE SAID, WAS KIND OF GROWN OVER TIME.

IT WAS NEVER ENVISIONED AS A PART OF THAT STUDY TO BE A BIG ELEMENT.

THIS IS SOMETHING WE TACKED ON AT THE END.

SO LET'S TALK FIRST ABOUT THE IMPERVIOUS IMPACT ANALYSIS.

THIS WAS A LIMITED SCOPE, HOT SCHEDULE ITEM.

SO WE SELECTED A TEST AREA TO GO DOWN TO THE LOCAL LEVEL DETAIL IN THE MODEL, UTILIZING THAT NEW MODEL, ALL THAT ADDITIONAL TERRAIN DATA I WAS JUST DISCUSSING.

WE EVALUATED FOUR DIFFERENT SCENARIOS IN THE MODEL AND COMPARED THE MAX FLOODING DEPTHS, RIGHT? SO WE'RE BUILDING IN A FUTURE SCENARIO OF WHAT IT COULD BE LIKE AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL OF DETAIL, BASICALLY DOWN TO THE PARCEL LEVEL IN THE MODEL, WHICH TYPICALLY FOR A MASTER PLAN, YOU'RE GOING TO YOU'RE GOING TO MODEL IT MORE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL.

YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT THE DITCHES IN FRONT OF HOMES AND THE PIPES CONNECTING TO A POND ARE ALL FUNCTIONING, BUT FOR THIS STUDY, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO LOOK AT THE IMPACTS OF EACH PROPERTY CHANGING ON ITS NEIGHBORS, WE ACTUALLY BROKE THAT DOWN EVEN FURTHER.

SO WITH THAT, WE RAN FOUR DIFFERENT SCENARIOS.

SCENARIO ONE WAS 40% ALLOWABLE IMPERVIOUS AREA, WHICH WAS THE SUGGESTED LEVEL AT THE TIME.

SO AGAIN, WE WERE DOING THIS BASED ON FEEDBACK FROM FROM THE COMMISSION AND FROM THE RESIDENTS THAT WE WERE AT 50 AND THERE WAS THIS THOUGHT OF GOING TO 40.

SO THOSE WERE THE TWO VALUES WE WERE COMPARING.

ONE WAS WITH ON SITE STORAGE AT THESE COMMUNITIES AND ONE WAS WITHOUT ON SITE STORAGE OR UNMAINTAINED ON SITE STORAGE, WHICH IS KIND OF ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT.

SO YOU CAN SEE IN SCENARIOS THREE AND FOUR THE DIFFERENT IMPACTS THAT YOU GET.

SO YOU GET MORE RUNOFF FROM SCENARIO FOUR, RIGHT, WHICH IS MORE IMPERVIOUS AREA WITHOUT ON SITE STORAGE.

SO THAT'S PRETTY LOGICAL.

I THINK WE CAN ALL FOLLOW THAT ALONG.

SO WHAT WERE THE KEY TAKEAWAYS.

MORE IMPERVIOUS AREA EQUALS MORE RUNOFF, WHICH EQUALS MORE FREQUENT OR INTENSE FLOODING.

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE AN ISSUE AND YOU ADD MORE WATER TO AN ISSUE, THE ISSUE GETS LARGER.

THE IMPACTS OF THAT STUDY RANGE FROM 2 TO 6IN TO COME UP WITH THAT RANGE.

WHAT WE DID IS WE RAN THE WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS THE FDOT DESIGN STORMS. SO THAT'S THE STANDARD STATE MANUAL THAT'S USED FOR A LOT OF SMALL DESIGN, RIGHT? SO ON THE STUDY SIDE, WE STICK TO THE LARGER EVENTS, SO A 25 YEAR, 24 HOUR EVENT AS DICTATED BY THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT FOR PERMITTING. WE ALSO LOOK AT THE 100 YEAR, 24 HOUR EVENT AS YOU WOULD LOOK AT FOR A FEMA FLOODPLAIN MAP.

SO THOSE TYPICALLY IN THE RANGE DON'T HAVE IT OFF OF THE TOP OF MY HEAD AT SOMEWHERE AROUND NINE AND 12IN FOR THIS PARTICULAR STUDY BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL CONVEYANCE SYSTEMS ON A STREET.

WE WERE THINKING ABOUT IT MORE IN THE VEIN OF YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, RIGHT? YOUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS A FIVE YEAR EVENT OR A TEN YEAR EVENT BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE SYSTEM.

FIVE YEAR FOR LOCAL, TEN YEAR FOR MORE OF YOUR CONVEYANCE.

THAT'S GOING TO MEAN FIVE YEARS ON YOUR STREET, TEN YEARS FOR YOUR SYSTEM THROUGH HERE FOR SHERMAN'S CREEK.

THAT'S WHAT THE CITY HAS STATED THEY ARE GOING TO PROVIDE THAT'S PART OF YOUR COMP PLAN.

SO WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THOSE STORM EVENTS, WE USED THE FDOT SUITE, WHICH MEANS WE RAN IT FOR A ONE HOUR TO HOUR, FOUR HOUR, EIGHT HOUR, 12 HOUR, 24 HOUR AND 36 HOUR EVENTS. SO IN TOTAL, WE ENDED UP RUNNING I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER, TOP OF MY HEAD.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER, THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE 36 OR SO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS OF HOW THE RAIN FALLS OVER WHAT PERIOD OF TIME TO WHAT TOTAL VOLUME, AND THOSE ARE WHAT ARE REFERRED TO AS SYNTHETIC DESIGN EVENTS THAT HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED AND ADOPTED AS STANDARD PRACTICE IN THE INDUSTRY.

SO ULTIMATELY THE LAST KEY TAKEAWAY, THE LAST BULLET, THE ON SITE STORAGE SYSTEM WAS SOMETHING WE WE NOTED ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE IT'S ONLY GOOD IF IT NEEDS TO BE IF IT'S MAINTAINED. RIGHT, AND THAT'S A THAT'S A REALLY KEY ISSUE BECAUSE WHEN WE STARTED MODELING, IF THEY START TO BECOME UNMAINTAINED OR YOU LIMIT SOME OF THEIR PERVIOUS ABILITY TO ABSORB THAT RUNOFF, THEY JUST BECOME MORE IMPERVIOUS THEMSELVES.

SO THAT WAS KIND OF THE IMPACTS OF WHETHER IT WAS AT 40 OR 50%, RIGHT? SO HOW MUCH RUNOFF COMES OFF AND THEREFORE, WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS DOWNSTREAM? THE SECOND TASK WE WERE AUTHORIZED TO DO WAS A REVIEW OF THE ONSITE STORAGE CALCULATIONS OR SPREADSHEETS.

THIS METHODOLOGY AGAIN WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED BY CDM.

SO WE REVIEWED THEIR ASSUMPTIONS AND FOUND THAT THEY WERE GENERALLY ACCEPTABLE IN THE PRACTICE OF ENGINEERING.

GET TEN ENGINEERS IN A ROOM. THEY'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH TEN DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO IT.

THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF WHAT WE WERE TRAINED TO DO, IF YOU WILL, IN ENGINEERING SCHOOL, IS TO SOLVE PROBLEMS AND COME UP WITH DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET TO THE END.

SO WE FELT THEY WERE WITHIN THE REASONABLE BOUNDS WITH THE NEXT STEP.

THEY ASKED US TO ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT IT AS IF THE SPREADSHEET DOESN'T EXIST.

[00:55:02]

SO ULTIMATELY, WHEN WE DID THAT, WE USED DIFFERENT METHODS LIKE THE CURVE NUMBER AND OTHER THINGS BESIDES THE RATIONAL METHOD.

WE COMPARED OUR RESULTS TO THE SPREADSHEET RESULTS AND OVER A HANDFUL OF PARCELS.

I THINK WE RAN IT FOR SOMEWHERE AROUND 12 OR 13 OF THE MOST RECENT PARCELS THAT HAD TO GO THROUGH THE ACTUAL PROCESS, REAL NUMBERS AT THAT POINT IN TIME. OUR RESULTS FOR THE AMOUNT OF STORAGE REQUIRED WAS PLUS OR MINUS 10%.

SO IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THE CITY, WHEN WE GOT TO THAT POINT, IT WAS BASICALLY NOTED THAT WHEN WE GET TO A PLUS OR MINUS 10%, THE CITY'S METHODS ARE REASONABLE. THERE WASN'T A NEED FOR US TO STAND UP HERE AND TRY TO CONVINCE YOU WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING FOR 15 YEARS IS ALL WRONG.

YOU SHOULD THROW IT ALL OUT AND START ALL OVER.

RIGHT? THAT WE'RE REALLY JUST WHITTLING AWAY AT THE EDGES HERE, AND AS STEVE MENTIONED, SINCE THEN, THE CITY CODES AND STORAGE CALCS WOULD HAVE CHANGED JUST EVER SO SLIGHTLY. I BELIEVE AT THE TIME, WHAT TRIGGERED THAT CALCULATION WAS 400FT² OF NEW IMPERVIOUS.

NOW IT'S 250.

THERE WAS A CALCULATION FOR DEPTH TO THE WATER TABLE.

I BELIEVE THAT WAS ONE NUMBER, AND NOW IT'S MOVED BY ABOUT A FOOT.

SO YOU KNOW WHAT'S CHANGED? IT'S BEEN TWEAKED A LITTLE BIT SINCE WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, BUT IT'S NOT WHAT I WOULD DEEM TO BE SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF CHANGING DRASTICALLY OR RESULTS , AND WITH THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE HAD FOR REVIEW OF WHAT WE DID.

HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS WITH STEVE OR [INAUDIBLE] ANYTHING.

YEAH. A QUICK QUESTION AND I'M SURE YOU GUYS HAVE THESE NUMBERS.

SO FOR THE STATE OF FLORIDA, IMPERVIOUS VERSUS PERVIOUS AND THE COASTAL COMMUNITIES, TELL ME WHAT AN AVERAGE IS.

IT'S HARD TO SAY AN EXACT AVERAGE, BUT WHERE YOU GUYS ARE IS IN THE BALLPARK.

IF YOU TOLD ME A COMMUNITY WAS AT 40% OR 50%, I WOULD SAY, OKAY, YOU DON'T HAVE A STATE OF FLORIDA AVERAGE.

WE CAN LOOK INTO THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I KNOW.

OR COASTAL COMMUNITY? NOT SOMETHING THAT WE TRACK.

NEPTUNE'S 50%.

I DON'T FOLLOW NEPTUNE.

YEAH, I KNOW WHERE IT IS. [CHUCKLING] COMMISSIONER WATERS.

[INAUDIBLE] I WAS HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF A HARD TIME FOLLOWING HIM.

I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S ALLOWED TO COME RESTATE IT BECAUSE I WASN'T TAKING DETAILED NOTES, BUT BASICALLY IT WAS SOMETHING ABOUT USING RATIONAL METHOD VERSUS CURVE NUMBER.

IS THAT THE GENESIS OF IT? YEAH, SO RATIONAL METHOD IS THE MOST SIMPLE, RIGHT? SO WHEN YOU GO THROUGH ENGINEERING SCHOOL, FIRST THING YOU LEARN, CURVE NUMBER IS A LITTLE BETTER, YOU CAN KEEP GOING AND USE GREEN [INAUDIBLE] METHODOLOGY.

HORTON'S, THERE'S ALL THESE DIFFERENT METHODS FOR GENERATING RUNOFF.

AS FAR AS THE MODEL GOES, THE MODELING WE'VE DONE.

SO THE IMPERVIOUS AREA IMPACTS, IF YOU WILL, WHEN REFERENCED 2 TO 6IN.

THOSE WERE ALL DONE ON CURVE NUMBER BECAUSE THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE INDUSTRY STANDARD.

WHAT THE MODEL TAKES, FRANKLY, YOU CAN'T EVEN PUT RATIONAL METHOD INTO MOST MODELS.

YOU CAN PUT EITHER CURVE NUMBER OR GREEN [INAUDIBLE] INTO IT.

AS FAR AS WHAT WE DID ON THE ONSITE REVIEW, WE REVIEWED IT AS IT STOOD, WHICH WAS IN THE RATIONAL METHOD.

WHEN WE DID OUR INDEPENDENT WORK, WE USED THE CURVE NUMBER METHOD.

SO IT'S [INAUDIBLE].

BECAUSE WE WERE ASKED TO REVIEW IT AS IF WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE CITY WAS DOING.

IF YOU JUST HIRED US, THEY HAD NO METHOD AND SAID, HEY, MAKE US AN EASY METHOD TO FOLLOW AND USE.

THAT'S WHAT WE STARTED WITH.

IT WASN'T WE WEREN'T TRYING TO.

RECREATE OUR OWN WAY OF DOING THE SAME THING WE WERE TRYING TO RECREATE AS IF THE CITY DIDN'T EXIST.

THEN COMPARE AS IF TRYING TO TAKE OUT THE BIASES.

RIGHT. SO IF YOU. IF I TOLD YOU TO LOOK AT IT IN THE EXACT SAME WAY AND COME UP WITH A NEW CALCULATION, YOUR VARIANCE IS GOING TO BE VERY BIG.

SO WE WANTED TO OPEN THE BOX TO, OKAY, PRETEND LIKE YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING WAS GOING ON, HOW WOULD YOU DO IT? AND WE USE THAT METHOD TO THEN THEN AT THE BACK END WE COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES ON TOTAL STORAGE SIZE.

RIGHT? YOU'RE ALL DRIVING TOWARDS A TOTAL STORAGE SIZE AND METHODOLOGY.

DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? NOT REALLY. SO I GUESS I'LL PUT IT THIS WAY.

DON'T UNDERSTAND THE REASONING.

IT MAY NOT BE, AS YOU KNOW.

LET ME TRY IT A DIFFERENT WAY.

IF YOU HAD A POLICY OF ALWAYS MEASURING OUT YOUR LOT SIZES IN FEET, RIGHT.

YOUR FRONTAGE IS EITHER 30, 40, 50, 60FT LOTS AND YOU SAID, HEY, WE DON'T HAVE PARCELS, SO WE'RE MAKING PARCELS, AND I CAME IN AND STARTED MEASURING THEM IN METERS.

I WOULD HAVE DIFFERENT NUMBERS THAN YOU, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'D BE ABLE TO COMPARE THEM, RIGHT? SO THAT'S KIND OF RATIONAL METHOD, THE CURVE NUMBER, RIGHT? WE CAME UP WITH DIFFERENT WE GOT WE HAD DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET THERE.

IT'S BASICALLY DIFFERENT UNITS, BUT WE WERE BOTH BOTH METHODS CALCULATE RUNOFF IN INCHES BOTH METHODS, THEN LOOK AT STORAGE IN CUBIC FEET OR YOU KNOW, IN ACRE FEET, ETCETERA, BASED ON YOUR SIZE.

SO WE WERE JUST STARTING, WE WERE TRYING TO PRETEND LIKE WE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING AND CREATE THAT POLICY.

[01:00:01]

GO AHEAD. I HAVE A QUESTION, BUT I THINK IT'S PROBABLY MORE SO FOR AMANDA.

WE'RE REVIEWING CHAPTER 24, AND I WONDERED, HOW DOES THIS REPORT FROM JONES EDMUND IMPACT CHAPTER 24'S REVISION OR AMENDMENTS? HI, GOOD EVENING. AMANDA ASKEW, THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.

THIS IS A TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION WHILE WE HAVE CHAPTER 24.

OPEN STAFF HAS NOT LOOKED AT OR MADE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CHANGING THIS SECTION.

WE HAVE DETERMINED WITH OUR CITY ENGINEER AND THE JONES EDMOND REPORT THAT THIS IS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION.

HOWEVER, WE ARE GETTING FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY AND HEARING A LOT OF CHATTER ABOUT IT AND ARE WILLING TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT SCENARIOS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE WANTING TO PROTECT HOMEOWNERS AND STREETS AND THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY FROM INCREASED FLOODING AND STORMWATER EVENTS.

OKAY. THANK YOU.

YOU GOT MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION? YES. IS IT BRIAN OR RYAN? BRIAN? OKAY. SO, BRIAN, YOU PRESENTED THIS REPORT AND YOU'RE TAKING FROM 2018 ALL OF THOSE THINGS INTO ACCOUNT. WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THIS REPORT MOVING FORWARD? ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE 4555 AND YOU'RE THINKING THIS IS THIS IS GOOD OR MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION? DOES IT NEED TO BE MORE? WHAT I SAW YOUR TAKEAWAYS, BUT IT WASN'T IN THE REPORT THAT I RECEIVED.

SO I DON'T HAVE THAT UP BEFORE ME, AND I DIDN'T TAKE MY PHONE OUT TO TAKE A PICTURE OF IT , BUT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO BREAK IT UP IN THE TAKEAWAYS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE OUR COMMISSION TO LOOK AT AND THE KEY TAKEAWAY HERE, I THINK RICK HIT ON A LITTLE BIT EARLIER, IS THE MORE IMPERVIOUS AREA YOU HAVE, THE HIGHER A LIKELIHOOD YOU ARE TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH STORMWATER TREATMENT. RIGHT NOW, THE STATE IS REALLY AGGRESSIVELY PUSHING ON NEW REGULATIONS TO ALL THE COMMUNITIES, WHETHER IT BE WATER, WASTEWATER OR STORMWATER, AND AS YOU ALLOW MORE IMPERVIOUS AS A POLICY, YOU'RE OPENING YOURSELF UP TO SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONAL TREATMENT AT THE TUNE OF SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT.

SO NOT HAVING ALL THE INFORMATION OF THE DISCUSSION THAT WENT ON BEFORE THIS, SINCE WE GOT THE CALL FROM STEVE ABOUT COMING TO KIND OF REHASH WHAT WE DID, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO GIVE A RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT YOU SHOULD DO IN THIS EXACT MOMENT, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT WHAT YOU HAVE IS A SOUND SET OF ENGINEERING SOUND IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S REASONABLE WITHIN THE INDUSTRY AND IT'S IF YOU START MAKING CHANGES TO BE VERY CAREFUL AS TO WHAT YOU CHANGE AND WHAT YOUR POTENTIAL IMPACTS ARE, AND IT LIKELY WOULD REQUIRE ADDITIONAL STUDY BECAUSE THOSE CHANGES EVEN FROM 2018 TO NOW ARE RAPID, RIGHT? WHAT'S HAPPENING NEXT YEAR IS STATEWIDE STORMWATER RULE, WHICH IS GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT, AND IF YOU START CHANGING IMPERVIOUS AREA AND ACCOUNT FOR THAT, THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED NEW DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TREAT STORMWATER FOR NOT JUST THE STORMWATER FOR THE WATER QUALITY, NOT JUST FOR THE NEW IMPERVIOUS AREA. THE DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME MAKE YOU TREAT FOR EVERYTHING AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD CAUTION EVERY COMMUNITY WE TALK TO TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT OPENING UP.

WHAT YOU HAVE NOW IS THAT'S ALREADY BAKED IN BY MAKING NO CHANGES.

THOSE INCREMENTAL IMPERVIOUS AREAS CAN INCREASE AND IS WITHIN KIND OF WHAT THE DISTRICT HAS ACCEPTED FROM YOU.

WHEN YOU START MAKING CHANGES, YOU'RE NOW OPENING YOURSELF UP FOR THEM TO COME BACK AND SAY, THAT'S GREAT, YOU CAN HAVE THAT AREA NOW WANT THIS TREATMENT.

SO JUST I WOULD SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY CAUTION ANY SIGNIFICANT OR WHAT THE DISTRICT WOULD DEEM AS SIGNIFICANT, WHICH I CAN'T SAY 5% SEEMS SIGNIFICANT TO ME, BUT ULTIMATELY THEY'RE THE REGULATORS, SO COORDINATION WITH THEM WOULD BE ADVISABLE.

OKAY. THANK YOU.

ANOTHER QUESTION, BRIAN.

SORRY, BEFORE THE MAYOR SPEAKS SO THEY TALKED ABOUT I HEARD STEVE TALK ABOUT AND ACTUALLY I HEARD MR. POWELL AT A TOWN HALL TALK ABOUT THIS PERVIOUS PAVERS, AND THE ISSUE WITH THE PERVIOUS PAVERS IS THAT THEY'RE NOT THE IDEA IS THAT THEY DON'T ALWAYS THEY'RE NOT WELL KEPT UP.

SO THAT'S ONE QUESTION.

THE OTHER ONE IS WHAT IS UP ON THE CHAPTER 24 FOR REVISION IS TURF, ASTROTURF, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THOSE? MY THOUGHTS ARE FROM THE STUDIES I'VE READ.

I HAVEN'T READ EVERYTHING OUT THERE, BUT THE STUDIES I'VE READ IN THE COMMUNITIES I'VE SPOKEN TO IS THAT THE GENERAL CONSENSUS AMONGST ENGINEERS IS THAT PERVIOUS PAVERS ARE PERVIOUS TO A POINT AND THEN IMPERVIOUS.

SO THERE'S NO GUARANTEE OF THE MAINTENANCE REQUIRED TO KEEP THEM PERVIOUS.

THEREFORE, FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, IT'S BEST TO CONSIDER THEM IMPERVIOUS BECAUSE AS ENGINEERS WE'RE NATURALLY CONSERVATIVE AND WE WANT TO PLAN FOR WORST CASE SCENARIO, NOT

[01:05:06]

RIGHT. SO IN THE CITY WE'LL BE IN THE SAME BOAT.

ANY DECISION YOU MAKE COULD CAUSE PROPERTY RIGHTS ISSUES DOWNSTREAM.

THE CITY IS NOW LIABLE.

SO ALL THE COMMUNITIES THAT I KNOW OF THAT ARE LOOKING INTO PRACTICES AND IMPERVIOUS RULES ARE TREATING PERVIOUS PAVERS AS EITHER IMPERVIOUS OR 50% PERVIOUS OR SOME SORT OF RATIO. I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I'M SURE THEY DO EXIST.

LIKE I SAID, I DON'T KNOW THEM ALL THAT ARE USING IT AS FULLY PERVIOUS.

SAME WITH THE TURF GRASS THAT'S ALWAYS KIND OF BEEN VIEWED AS THIS GOLDEN BULLET FOR FROM A MAINTENANCE PERSPECTIVE ON YOUR SITE, BUT FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN, A LOT OF THE NEW TURF GRASSES HAVE EITHER A PRETTY HEAVY DUTY PAVER TYPE UNDERGROUND.

SO THEY THEY COMPACT THE SOIL.

THEY PUT IN THE REAL DENSE SAND ON TOP OF THE GRAVEL.

THEN THEY LAY DOWN THIS TURF GRASS, WHICH MIGHT BE MOSTLY RUBBER, HAS SOME HOLES IN IT, BUT THEN IT JUST GOES RIGHT DOWN TO A REALLY CRUSHED SET OF GRAVEL AND STONE AND LIME ROCK, WHICH IS A LOT LIKE WHAT YOU USE FOR YOUR ROAD BASE TO MAKE IT STABLE SO IT DOESN'T MOVE.

SO IN THAT CASE, IT ENDS UP BECOMING EFFECTIVELY IMPERVIOUS OVER TIME, IF NOT RIGHT AWAY, BECAUSE THESE THINGS WILL ALSO CLOG, THE PORES WILL GET GUMMED UP.

IT TAKES A LOT OF MAINTENANCE, AND AGAIN, AS ENGINEERS AND PLANNERS, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A MASTER PLAN SUPPOSED TO LAST 20 YEARS, 50 YEARS, IT'S HARD FOR US TO STAND UP HERE AND SAY THAT AT AN INDIVIDUAL LOT LEVEL, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE PERFECTLY MAINTAINED.

THAT IS WELL BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THIS COMMISSION, BUT THE DECISIONS THAT THIS COMMISSION MAKES MAY CAUSE IMPACTS DOWNSTREAM THAT MAKE YOU LIABLE.

SO YOU WANT TO BE CONSERVATIVE IN YOUR CHOICES.

BRIAN, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND ANSWERING SO MANY QUESTIONS.

I HAVE A COUPLE. YOU MADE I THINK I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY THAT YOU DON'T KNOW OF CITIES OR MANY OR I'M NOT SURE ANY THAT HAVE A POLICY OF 100% PERVIOUS ON PAVERS, PERVIOUS PAVERS.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T EXIST, OF COURSE.

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY CITIES THAT HAVE POLICY OF 100% IMPERVIOUS ON PERVIOUS PAVERS? YES, AND ARE ANY OF THOSE LOCAL OR ON THIS COAST NEARBY? THE COUPLE THAT ARE COMING SPRING FIRST IN MY HEAD ARE IN THE TAMPA BAY AREA THAT ARE COASTAL COMMUNITIES, BUT I HAVE NOT RESEARCHED.

OKAY. THESE COUPLE COMMUNITIES RIGHT HERE AROUND US.

OKAY. JUST YOUR OPINION, IS THERE A NUMBER IN BETWEEN 0 AND 100% THAT MAKES SENSE KNOWING THAT SOME OF THEM MAY FAIL IF NOT MAINTAINED PROPERLY? THAT'S REALLY A POLICY DECISION.

OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE 100% BECAUSE AGAIN, THAT'S THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE OF US, BUT ULTIMATELY, THESE DECISIONS LIKE LAND USE CODE, BECOME POLICY CHOICES BETWEEN STAFF AND THE COMMISSION. DO YOU EVER WORRY THAT BY HAVING A RESTRICTIVE POLICY THAT SAYS NO BENEFIT FOR PERVIOUS ON WHAT'S ACTUALLY SOLD AS PERVIOUS THAT IT WOULD CAUSE PEOPLE TO NOT USE THEM AND WHICH WOULD ACTUALLY BE A NET LOSS IN THE EFFORT TO MAINTAIN STORMWATER CONTROL? MEANING THAT SOMEBODY WOULD JUST PUT IN CONCRETE.

YEAH. IT'S THE SAME WORRY ABOUT THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF NOT REWARDING GOOD BEHAVIOR.

YES. YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY A CONCERN, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S BEYOND WHAT WE CAN REALLY CONTROL OVER A 20 YEAR PLANNING HORIZON.

WE HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE.

THAT'S CONSERVATIVE AND BEST OFFENSIVE OF THE CITY FROM A LIABILITY AND PLANNING PERSPECTIVE.

SURE, I UNDERSTAND. SO A SECOND QUESTION IS THE CITIZEN THAT SPOKE EARLIER, WHO IS ALSO AN ENGINEER, TALKED ABOUT THE CURVE METHOD VERSUS FOR THE RUNOFF COEFFICIENT, AND THAT WAS NOT USED, BUT HE SPOKE TO THE ISSUE THAT HE THINKS THAT OUR CURRENT ANALYSIS IS ACTUALLY OFF BY 50% OR DOUBLE WHAT IT SHOULD BE AND DID YOU HEAR WHAT HE HAD TO SAY ABOUT THAT? AND IS DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY HE BELIEVES THAT? I HEARD WHAT HE SAID.

I DID NOT PROCESS FAST ENOUGH IN THE CHAIR WITHOUT SEEING WHAT IT WAS, BUT I BELIEVE THAT IF WE'RE PRESENTED WITH THAT, WE COULD LOOK INTO IT, BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I CAN FOLLOW ON THE FLY, AND I WONDER CITY MANAGER WHETHER WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE BRIAN OR SOMEBODY FROM THE FIRM BACK AT OUR NEXT CHAPTER 24 REVIEW.

IS THAT, AND HERE'S THE REASON WHY BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO TURN THIS MEETING INTO A DEBATE BETWEEN CITIZEN A AND YOUR FIRM AND SO ON, BUT IN A REGULAR REVIEW MEETING OF CHAPTER 24, I THINK WE EASILY COULD HAVE A BACK AND FORTH DIALOG, AND IF THAT WAS ABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BETWEEN THE CITY MANAGER AND ANYBODY ELSE ON CITY STAFF, WE COULD GET YOU SOME QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE WITH THE REASONING SO THAT YOU WOULD BE PREPARED.

YEAH, QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE WOULD DEFINITELY MAKE THE DIALOG MORE PRODUCTIVE.

[01:10:01]

SO I HEARD AND I'VE TALKED SO MUCH ABOUT THIS, BUT I'VE FORGOTTEN.

SO WE DID THE STUDY AND WE AND YOU EVEN MENTIONED, I THINK IT WAS A DOZEN PROPERTIES THAT WERE RECENTLY IMPACTED, AND YOU LOOKED AT THOSE WERE THOSE ALL IN ONE PREDOMINANT AREA OF THE CITY OR WERE THEY DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE CITY? ALL FULLY OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT MY MEMORY SERVES IT WAS THE 12 OR 13 MOST RECENT PROPERTIES THAT REQUIRED STORAGE, RIGHT? SO BASICALLY WE DID WHAT WAS JUST THE APPLICANTS THAT CAME IN THAT WENT THROUGH THE EXISTING METHODOLOGY AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

SO FROM LATE 2018, BACK 12 PROPERTIES, RIGHT? SO INTO 17, HOW FAR BACK IT WENT, WE RECALCULATED IT WITH WHAT WE WOULD HAVE DONE FROM SCRATCH VERSUS WHAT THE CITY WAS IMPOSING ON THEM, AND THAT'S HOW WE CAME TO THE FACT THAT THEY WERE ABOUT 10% OFF.

THANK YOU, AND I THINK YOU MAY HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.

I HAVE ONE LAST ONE AND THEN WE'LL OPEN IT BACK ON POOLS.

MY UNDERSTANDING AND THIS IS US OR THIS COMMISSION, NOT YOU, BUT WHEN THE DECISION WAS MADE TO GO TO 50%, IT WAS REALLY A STRONG ADVOCACY TO GO TO ZERO PERVIOUS, AND OF COURSE, THERE'S THE OPPOSING FACTION THAT SAYS YOU SHOULD BE 100% PERVIOUS, AND THEN IT WAS SETTLED ON AT 50. SO I THINK IN THE END IT WAS SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY DO YOU HAVE DOES YOUR FIRM REALLY LOOK AT POOLS? DO YOU LOOK AT THE AVERAGE FREEBOARD IN A POOL? DO YOU DO CALCULATIONS AND DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON WHAT THAT NUMBER SHOULD BE? WE DON'T DO POOLS, AND SINCE WE DO AVERAGE CALCULATIONS, WE JUST KNOW THAT GENERICALLY THEY TYPICALLY HAVE BETWEEN 0 AND 6 TO EIGHT INCHES OF FREEBOARD.

SO IF WE WERE TO HAVE TO DO A IMPERVIOUS AREA, CALC ON IT, THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF RANGES WE WOULD ASSUME.

RIGHT, AND SO IN A SMALL EVENT, IF IT RAINS A HALF AN INCH, POOLS ARE PROBABLY 100% PERVIOUS IN EFFECT THAT IT CAPTURES IT.

ALL RIGHT. [INAUDIBLE] PROBABLY AREN'T CAPTURING IT ALL.

OF COURSE, FOR MYSELF, I CAN ATTEST THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH MY POOL, PARTICULARLY IF IT RAINED TWO, THREE DAYS IN A ROW, AND THEN YOU GET THE BIG ONE, RIGHT.

IT STARTS TO FILL UP HOW MUCH YOU'RE MANAGING IT, BUT AS FAR AS MAKING AN ASSESSMENT OF HOW TO RECOMMEND THE POOLS, THAT'S PRETTY SIMILAR TO THE PERVIOUS PAVERS OUR POOL IS BEING MANAGED, WHAT'S THE MAINTENANCE? ULTIMATELY, THAT BECOMES A POLICY DECISION.

THERE'S PROBABLY A RANGE OF INDUSTRY ACCEPTABLE NUMBERS AND THEN IT'S UP TO EACH COMMUNITY, THEIR STAFF, THEIR COUNCIL TO DECIDE.

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER BOLE.

BOTTOM LINE HERE, RIGHT? THERE'S A SCALE FROM PERVIOUS TO IMPERVIOUS, RIGHT? AND SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, WE DRAW THE LINE AS FAR AS DIFFERENT TYPES OF SURFACES.

CORRECT. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT CHAPTER 24, MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE DIFFERENT SECTIONS ALONG THAT SLIDING SCALE.

THAT'S MY PART. THANKS, AND ONE LAST AND I'LL GET OFF THE SUBJECT IS WHEN YOU ADVISE CITIES AND OF COURSE YOU'RE ADVISING FROM A TECHNICAL ENGINEERING STANDPOINT, BUT DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE CHALLENGE THAT CITIES HAVE IN TAKING COMPLEXITY AND ADMINISTERING CODE? AND SO DOES IT TEND TO GO IN THE DIRECTION OF JUST TAKING WHATEVER IS? IDIOT PROOF. YEAH, I WOULDN'T USE THOSE WORDS, BUT YES, WE TRY TO TAKE COMPLEX PROBLEMS AND APPLY SIMPLE SOLUTIONS TO THEM IS KIND OF A COINED PHRASE, BUT YES, IT'S I DO NOT ENVY THE BEING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MIC.

IT'S VERY EASY FOR ME TO GO BACK TO TEXTBOOKS, GO BACK TO LITERATURE, GO BACK TO OTHER STUDIES AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE RECOMMEND.

YOU GUYS HAVE TO TAKE ALL THAT IN AND DIGEST IT.

WE CAN TALK WITH STAFF AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT WE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THE EXACT WILL OF THE PEOPLE, IF YOU WILL, THE WAY YOU GUYS DO, AND THAT IS ULTIMATELY WHY IT BECOMES YOUR CHOICE ON THESE KINDS OF ITEMS. WE SIMPLY RECOMMEND FROM A TECHNICAL SIDE THAT YOU STAY WITHIN THESE RANGES.

AT THAT POINT, IT BECOMES YOUR CHOICE.

BRIAN, THANK YOU.

I THINK YOU HAVE ONE QUESTION.

JUST ONE QUESTION. BRIAN, COULD WE HEAR THE TERM 25 YEAR STORM, 100 YEAR STORM? COULD YOU EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS? YEAH. SO THAT IS THE PERCENT CHANCE.

IT'S JUST A COMPLEX PROBLEM TO BECOME A SIMPLE NOMENCLATURE THAT PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND.

RIGHT? SO REALLY WHAT'S BEHIND ALL THAT IS PERCENT PROBABILITIES.

SO A 100 YEAR STORM IS THE EASIEST ONE TO UNDERSTAND.

SO TURNING THAT INTO A PERCENTAGE IS 1% CHANCE OF HAPPENING, BUT REALLY IT'S 1% CHANCE OF IT HAPPENING EVERY DAY.

SO IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN SAYING FLIPPING A COIN IS 50% CHANCE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT DON'T FLIP THREE HEADS IN A ROW, RIGHT? A 1% STORM OR 100 YEAR STORM CAN HAPPEN THREE DAYS IN A ROW.

THERE'S ALSO A 100 YEAR STORM THAT'S AS NOTED BY SOME OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, GETS TIED TO A DURATION.

SO THERE'S 100 YEAR STORM THAT HAPPENS IN ONE HOUR OR 1% CHANCE STORM.

THAT HAPPENS OVER TWO HOURS, THREE HOURS, FOUR HOURS.

SO YOU MIGHT HEAR A LOT IN THE NEWS.

IT'S A 100 YEAR STORM AND THINK, WOW, IT HAPPENS ONLY ONCE IN 100 YEARS.

NOT REALLY. IT HAPPENS A LITTLE MORE OFTEN THAN THAT BECAUSE OF THE PROBABILITIES.

[01:15:01]

RIGHT, AND WE'VE BEEN COLLECTING RAINFALL DATA FOR A LITTLE OVER 100 YEARS, BUT YET WE WANT TO STAND UP HERE AND SAY, WELL, THAT'S A 100 YEAR STORM.

I DON'T KNOW. HOW DO WE KNOW WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DATA? RIGHT. SO BEYOND SOMETHING LIKE A 5 OR 10 YEAR STORM, WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WITH ANY STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE.

PLUS, THEN ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAVE TRENDS OF CLIMATOLOGY IS ALWAYS CHANGING.

SO IT'S A 10% STORM OF WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST, BUT TO QUOTE MY COMPANY THAT LIKES TO BE CONFUSED WITH US, EDWARD JONES PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF FUTURE PERFORMANCE, RIGHT? THEY ALWAYS SAY THAT ON THE STOCK MARKET, IT'S KIND OF THE SAME WAY WITH RAINFALL.

ALL WE CAN DO IS PREDICT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TODAY BASED ON LANDSCAPE IF YOU SAW THIS EVENT , BUT THAT'S AN EVER CHANGING MARKET.

SO I TRY NOT TO GET CAUGHT UP IN LABELING THE STORMS BY.

NUMBERS BECAUSE IT CAN CONFUSE THE PUBLIC THAT IT'S OVER, RIGHT? 100 YEAR STORM MEANS, OH, WE HAD ONE.

WON'T HAVE ONE AGAIN. WELL, YOU COULD HAVE ONE NEXT MONTH, NEXT WEEK.

SO WE NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR THOSE.

WE NEED TO BE DOING OUR BEST TO LOOK OUT FOR THAT, AND WE'RE WATCHING THOSE TRENDS CONTINUE.

A LOT OF THE INDUSTRY NUMBERS ARE BASED ON SOME STORM WATER RAINFALL DATA WORK BASED FROM THE SAINT JOHNS RIVER WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT IN THE 70S AND NOW RECENTLY, NOAA HAS COME UP WITH NEW VALUES AND ATLAS 14 THAT ARE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER, AND SO THINGS THAT WERE DESIGNED APPROPRIATELY FOR THE TIME 20 YEARS AGO MAY NOT BE ANYMORE DESIGNED APPROPRIATELY FOR THE TIME, AND SO EVEN THINGS THAT WERE CORRECTLY DONE MAY NOT FUNCTION NOW HOW YOU WISH.

SO THAT'S ALREADY TAKEN AWAY SOME OF YOUR MARGIN FOR SAFETY AND SOME OF YOUR MARGIN FOR ERROR IN YOUR SYSTEM.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, BRIAN.

THANK YOU, BRIAN. OKAY.

I THINK WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM THREE.

DISCUSSION REGARDING CITY MANAGER POSITION.

I KNOW IT SAYS GERRITY TO REPORT, BUT I'LL GO AHEAD AND TAKE THIS ONE IF THAT'S OKAY.

THAT'S FINE. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO JOE AND JASON GABRIEL AND CATHY VARIAN.

ALL FOUR OF US DID, IN FACT, SPEND A LOT OF TIME COLLABORATING ON WHAT WE WERE WORKING THROUGH ON THE CITY MANAGER AGREEMENT, AND I CAN CERTAINLY SAY THAT I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DID NOT COMPLETE THAT AGREEMENT WITH WITH MIKE NEW, BUT I'M NOT COMPLETELY DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE WHEN YOU GO THROUGH AN EXHAUSTIVE EXTENSIVE ENGAGEMENT AS WE DID BACK AND FORTH AND ADDRESSING AND LISTENING AND SO ON, AT A CERTAIN POINT, YOU REALIZE IF THE IF THE AGREEMENT DOESN'T COME TOGETHER, THAT'S PROBABLY THE RIGHT ANSWER, AND SO I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT WE DID NOT CLOSE THE GAP IN THE END ON WHAT MR. NEW REQUIRED. IT MAY HAVE YOU KNOW, IT MAY HAVE SEEMED MINOR, BUT IT WAS SIGNIFICANT TO HIM OR THERE WERE OTHER ISSUES AT PLAY THAT WE DID NOT KNOW.

SO WE WISH MR. NEW WELL AND GREAT SUCCESS.

HE WAS A GENTLEMAN, A DELIGHT TO SPEAK WITH AND ENGAGE WITH.

WE JUST DID NOT CLOSE THAT DEAL.

SO THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT WE HAVE ANOTHER GREAT CANDIDATE IN MR. KILLINGSWORTH, AND I'LL JUST SHARE BRIEFLY.

THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT CANDIDATES.

CLEARLY, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT STRENGTHS.

ONE IS THE CITY MANAGER, ONE IS NOT, BUT AS WE ALL AGREED IN THE LAST MEETING, WE I THINK WE ALL HAD APPRECIATION FOR BOTH CANDIDATES, AND IT JUST ENDED UP THAT WE VOTED TO PROCEED WITH MIKE NEW.

I REACHED OUT TO BILL KILLINGSWORTH ON FRIDAY AND ASKED HIM IF HE WOULD CONSIDER AN OFFER , AND HE AND I TALKED AT LENGTH ABOUT WHAT HIS STRENGTHS ARE AND WHAT HIS CHALLENGES WOULD BE AND WHETHER HE WOULD HAVE MY SUPPORT.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE OTHER FOUR COMMISSIONERS, BUT I WOULD BE DELIGHTED TO TALK ABOUT EXTENDING AN OFFER TO BILL KILLINGSWORTH, AND I THINK HE WOULD DO A FINE JOB FOR THE CITY. SO WITH THAT, I'M JUST GOING TO OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

MR. BOLE. I VOTED FOR MR. KILLINGSWORTH PREVIOUSLY.

I THINK HE BRINGS ATTRIBUTES TO THIS CITY THAT WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE.

I THINK HIS IS DEPTH AND BREADTH OF KNOWLEDGE OF DUVAL COUNTY AND RESILIENCY AND SOME OF THE PRIORITIES THAT WE SET EARLY ON HE WOULD CARRY OUT. SO I'M EXCITED THAT IF WE'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE MR. KILLINGSWORTH HERE, I WOULD STRONGLY ENDORSE HIM.

THANKS. I TAUGHT WITH MR. KILLINGSWORTH YESTERDAY.

IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION.

[01:20:01]

I THINK THAT MR. NEW, BEING A CITY MANAGER BEFORE WAS PROBABLY THE DECIDING VOTE IN MY GUT TO VOTE FOR HIM , AND NOW THAT HE IS OUT OF THE RACE, I KNOW WE HAVE KEVIN HOGENCAMP, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER, TO NAVIGATE MR. KILLINGSWORTH THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS.

I ALSO HAVE IT FROM A VERY RELIABLE SOURCE THAT HE IS IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL.

MR. KILLINGSWORTH IS IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HIS POSITION HAS BEEN POSTED, BUT MAYOR DEEGAN HAS NOT SAID ANYTHING TO HIM ABOUT COMING OR GOING, AND I ADDRESSED THAT WITH HIM DIRECTLY, AND HE SAID, IF EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME, I WANT THIS POSITION AND I'M IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL AND I BELIEVE HIM.

I SAID, THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

THIS HAS BEEN SEVEN, EIGHT MONTHS WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS, AND HE UNDERSTANDS THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS.

I KNOW HE'S WATCHING RIGHT NOW.

HE TOLD ME HE WAS GOING TO BE WATCHING BUT YES, MIKE NEW WAS A GENTLEMAN, AND I WISH HIM THE BEST, AND I AM EXCITED.

I MEAN, BRUCE, THE OTHER NIGHT WHEN THE LAST MEETING WAS, I MEAN, HE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT HE'S GOING TO BRING AND ALSO, MR. GERRITY. I MEAN, HE SAID THIS MAY BE LIKE A ONCE IN A GENERATION PERSON, AND I DIDN'T SEE IT INITIALLY.

I GOT REALLY CAUGHT UP IN HITTING THE GROUND RUNNING, BUT I REALLY THINK WITH, AS BRUCE SAID, GRANTS MAYPORT ROAD INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT, THE RELATIONSHIPS HE HAS WITH THE CITY AND WITH THE STATE IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

MAYBE I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING WHAT HE CAN BRING, AND I AM GETTING EXCITED ABOUT IT, NOT JUST BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS AND I WANT TO END THE PROCESS. I THINK WE HAD TWO GREAT CANDIDATES.

THEY'RE DIFFERENT, BUT I'M EXCITED ABOUT MR. KILLINGSWORTH.

COMMISSIONER RING. WELL, LIKE I'LL JUST ECHO WHAT EVERYONE HAS SAID SO FAR THAT MIKE NEW WAS A GENTLEMAN AND HE WAS A GREAT CANDIDATE.

I LOVED THAT HE HAD CITY MANAGER EXPERIENCE AND I REALLY WAS DISAPPOINTED WHEN I FOUND OUT HE WITHDREW.

WITH THAT SAID, I MEANT WHAT I SAID AT OUR SPECIAL HEARING INITIALLY FOR THAT OR THE PUBLIC INTERVIEW THAT WE HELD, WHICH WAS THAT WE HAD TWO GREAT CANDIDATES, AND I REALLY COULD HAVE GONE EITHER WAY WITH EITHER OF THEM.

THEY HAD BOTH STRONG ATTRIBUTES, VERY DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS, AND SO I WAS HAPPY TO HEAR OR ACTUALLY CALLED MISTER KILLINGSWORTH ON THURSDAY NIGHT OR FRIDAY AND SPOKE WITH HIM, AND I ASKED HIM, MY BIGGEST APPREHENSION WITH MISTER KILLINGSWORTH WAS THAT HE WAS SUCH A BIG FISH AND WOULD HE BE IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL? BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE AGAIN IN 12 MONTHS.

IT'S TAKEN LONG ENOUGH TO GET TO THIS POINT, AND HE REITERATED TO ME THAT THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY WHERE HE WANTED TO BE AND HIS NEXT STAGE IN HIS CAREER.

SO I BELIEVED HIM.

I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY HONEST AND HEARTFELT, AND I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED WITH OFFERING HIM A POSITION.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER RING.

COMMISSIONER KELLY. SO I WAS SURPRISED TO HEAR PEOPLE DIDN'T EXPECT HIM TO STAY VERY LONG BECAUSE HE HAD ALREADY TOLD US THAT HE WAS GOING HE HAD ALREADY RETIRED ONCE AND DIDN'T LIKE IT AND WENT BACK TO WORK AND REEVALUATING WHERE HE WANTED TO BE IN HIS WORKING YEARS.

HE REALIZED THAT WHAT HE WANTED WAS A SMALL PLACE LIKE THIS WHERE HE COULD WORK WITH PEOPLE.

HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT BEING A BIG FISH.

HE WANTED TO WORK WITH PEOPLE AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE, AND SO MY CONVICTION THAT HE'S THE RIGHT PERSON HAS NOT CHANGED SINCE THE LAST MEETING.

OTHER COMMENTS THEN, ALTHOUGH I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ANSWERED ALL OF CINDY ANDERSON'S CONCERNS WITH THE CONTRACT, THAT IS NOT NO LONGER JUST CUT AND PASTED, THAT WE HAVE ADDRESSED MANY THINGS IN THERE TO THE EXTENT IN THE.

SORRY, BUT IN THE AGENDA THAT WAS POSTED, SHE DID HAVE TWO FOLLOW UP ONES ONE IN PARTICULAR WAS HAVING TO DO WITH SECTION 14, THE PERFORMANCE REVIEW, AND IF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS WOULD TURN THEIR OPEN UP YOUR BOOKLETS AND

[01:25:01]

SO SECTION 14, IT'S PAGE 98 IN THE AGENDA AND IT HAS TO DO WITH PERFORMANCE EVALUATION.

THE CITY COMMISSION HAS THE OPTION OF CONDUCTING AN ANNUAL REVIEW OF PERFORMANCE OF THE CITY MANAGER TO BE COORDINATED BY THE DIRECTOR OF HR.

SHOULDN'T IT SAY EXACTLY THEY SHALL DO THAT INSTEAD OF AN OPTION? I THINK THE WORDING IS A LITTLE MAY I JUST SAY, I ADDRESSED THAT A FEW DAYS AGO WITH JOE AND WITH CATHY VARIAN, BECAUSE THAT IS CORRECT.

THE CHARTER SAYS WILL WILL NOT SHALL OR OPTION OPTION.

IT'S NOT OPTIONAL. SO BETTER YET, LET'S JUST TAKE THE WHOLE PROVISION OUT, WHICH IS WHAT WE DID.

OH, PERFECT, PERFECT.

OKAY, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE SHE WAS WONDERING ABOUT, SHE BROUGHT UP WAS IN THE APPENDIX ITSELF, AND JUST SO THE PUBLIC KNOWS, CINDY IS AN HR LAWYER.

RIGHT. SO THAT WAS HER FIELD OR IS APPENDIX ONE THE SEPARATION OF EMPLOYMENT AND GENERAL RELEASE AND WAIVER.

SHE WANTED TO SEE THE ADEA THE EMPLOYMENT ACT.

THE AGE OF DISCRIMINATION.

IT WAS ALREADY LISTED IN SECTION [INAUDIBLE] WE NEED TO HAVE IT IN THE APPENDIX AND IN THAT SECTION? ONCE AGAIN, I'VE GONE OVER THIS WITH MS. BERRY AND OUR HR DIRECTOR AND TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT THOSE COMMENTS, AND WE'RE RECTIFYING THAT.

THERE'S A SLEW OF ACTS THAT'S NOT THE ONLY ONE, THE AGE DISCRIMINATION ONE.

THERE'S A BUNCH OF OTHER ONES.

SO WE PUT INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE AGE DISCRIMINATION.

SO ONCE AGAIN, WE DID TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ALL OF HER COMMENTS TO THE EXTENT THEY WERE RELEVANT.

THANKS. THANK YOU, JASON.

I KNOW WE HAVEN'T EVEN VOTED YET ON WHETHER TO OFFER HIM A JOB, BUT WILL WE DO THAT TODAY AND TALK ABOUT THE CONTRACT THAT WILL OFFER? WELL, WE'RE NOT GOING TO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A VOTE.

IT'LL BE A CONSENSUS, AS WE DID ON THE LAST TIME, AND THEN WE WILL VOTE IF, IN FACT, WE GET AN APPROVED CONTRACT FROM THE CANDIDATE, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH EVERY NUANCE AND DETAIL.

THIS IS NEGOTIATIONS, BUT I WILL I WILL GO AHEAD AND ADDRESS ONE, AND THAT IS WE HEARD FROM SEVERAL PEOPLE ON THIS. DO WE WANT TO LEAVE THE HOUSING ALLOWANCE IN THE SALARY OR DO WE WANT TO PULL IT OUT OF THE SALARY AND MAKE IT SEPARATE? I CERTAINLY TOOK THE LEAD FROM THIS COMMISSION IN MY WORKING WITH CITY STAFF TO BUNDLE BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER BECAUSE THAT WAS MY DIRECTION FROM THE.

WELL, HOLD ON. THAT WAS MY DIRECTION, I BELIEVE FROM THE LAST MEETING IS THAT WE DID NOT OR SEVERAL PEOPLE DID NOT WANT THEM SEPARATE.

SO THAT IS WHAT I DID, BECAUSE I HAD TO BRING A CONTRACT BACK THAT WOULD BE RATIFIED BUT BASED ON THIS DISCUSSION TONIGHT, DOES ANYBODY WISH TO CHANGE THAT AND SPLIT THE TWO APART? AS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T GET A HOUSING ALLOWANCE AND DOESN'T MAKE $200,000.

I CAN AFFORD TO LIVE IN ATLANTIC BEACH, BUT WE'VE ALREADY THROWN THAT NUMBER OUT THERE FOR HIM AND THINK IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE TO WITHDRAW THE NUMBER THAT WE'VE ALREADY OFFERED.

OKAY, THAT ANSWERS THAT, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT SPLITTING THE TWO NUMBERS APART.

OUR FINAL OFFER TO MR. NEW, I BELIEVE, WAS 207,500 WITH BOTH COMPONENTS ADDED TOGETHER.

SO AND BY THE WAY, THAT WAS MIDPOINT OF THE RANGE.

SO IT WAS NOT PUSHING THE UPPER LIMITS OF THE RANGE.

IT WAS MIDPOINT, BUT I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO SEPARATE THEM.

THE HE CHINK IN THE ARMOR WAS THE FACT WE HAD ALREADY OFFERED THAT NUMBER, BUT I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO SEPARATE THEM TO WHERE IN THE FUTURE THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE COULD DO SOMETHING WITH THAT HOUSING AGREEMENT.

YEAH I THOUGHT THE OTHER WAY THAT THEY WERE COMBINED.

SHOULD THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT? WE CAN RENEGOTIATE AND GO BACK.

SO YOU JUST SAID COMBINE, THOUGH, DO YOU? I'M BUYING THE SAME CONTRACT THAT WE OFFER MR. NEW. OKAY.

WHICH IS ONE NUMBER INSTEAD OF INSTEAD OF 109.

WHAT WAS IT? 195.

IT STARTED WITH 195 PLUS 20, AND THEN WE ROUNDED UP TO THE 275 BECAUSE THAT WAS MIDPOINT.

IF I COULD SAY SOMETHING, PLEASE.

I WOULD JUST THINK THAT THE OFFER WE MAKE TO MR. KILLINGSWORTH WILL BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT WE MAKE.

[01:30:05]

THAT RIGHT. YEAH.

BY THE WAY, LAST VERSION WE PUT IN MY DISCUSSIONS WITH HIM, HE PLANS ON DOING THAT AND I SAID, IT'S NOT YOU'RE NOT LEAVING ATLANTIC BEACH.

YOU'RE MAKING AN INVESTMENT IN ATLANTIC BEACH, AND LET ME THANK YOU.

I LIKE THAT. LET ME ECHO THAT PIECE BECAUSE ONE DAY IN THE FUTURE THERE WILL BE YET ANOTHER CITY MANAGER, BUT IN THIS CASE, IF WE HIRE MR. KILLINGSWORTH AND HE'S ALREADY MADE THAT STATEMENT AND AGREES TO IT, THEN WE SOLVE THE ISSUE WITHOUT REGARD TO WHETHER THERE'S A CHANGE IN THE CHARTER OR NOT, AND WE HAVE A COMMITMENT AND AN OBLIGATION TO RESIDE IN THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH, AND I CERTAINLY I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR, I ALWAYS WANTED THAT FIRST.

I SIMPLY ACKNOWLEDGE IT REALLY BEGAN WITH THE OLD SALARY.

I ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT'S A CHALLENGE TO LIVE IN THE CITY OR BE MANDATED, AND THAT IF IN FACT THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE OFFERED TO OR RECOMMENDED A CHANGE, THAT I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT, BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THE BEST EXECUTION FOR THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH IS TO HAVE OUR CITY MANAGER RESIDE IN THE CITY. SO.

ALL RIGHT. SO DO WE HAVE A CONSENSUS FOR THE MAYOR? THE CITY MANAGER? THE CITY ATTORNEY AND CATHY VARIAN TO PROCEED WITH NEGOTIATING THIS AGREEMENT.

YES. YES, MR. GERRITY. I SAID MR. GERRITY. OKAY IWAS LIKE, YES, I AGREE.

THIS IS THE FOUR. SO.

OKAY. THANK YOU ALL.

WE'LL PROCEED ON THAT WITH DUE DISPATCH AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND THEN WE'LL SEE ABOUT WHAT DATE TO PUT IT BACK ON THE CALENDAR FOR FINAL VOTE OR FOR A VOTE PERIOD.

OKAY.

LET'S SEE WE ARE AT ITEM FOUR REPORTS, REQUESTS FROM CITY COMMISSIONERS.

[4. REPORTS AND/OR REQUESTS FROM CITY COMMISSIONERS]

SO I WANT, LIKE, ASK MR. BOLE AND MAYBE THE FINANCE DIRECTOR IF WE COULD INVESTIGATE THE REQUEST FROM THE RETIREES FOR A COLA.

I'M NOT SURE OF THE PROCEDURE, AND I KNOW HE'S ASKED TWICE, SO WE SHOULD OWE HIM THE FAVOR OF A RESPONSE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL, EVERYTHING WORKED OUT OKAY ON SHERRY DRIVE? NO FISTFIGHTS ON SHERRY.

YEAH, SHERRY DRIVES A BIG PROBLEM.

ALSO THIS IS MY THIRD GO ROUND WITH WITH CITY MANAGER HIRING AND IT HAS BEEN MENTIONED AND COMMISSIONER BOLE HAS ALREADY VOLUNTEERED TO PERHAPS SKETCH OUT OR LAYOUTS AND PROCEDURES FOR US THE NEXT TIME WE HAVE TO DO THIS AND ALSO FOR SELECTING PEOPLE FROM THE CITY TO SERVE ON COMMITTEES OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT WE ALREADY HAVE A BRC.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT WE ADD THAT ATTACH THAT TO 2-19, WHICH ALREADY LAYS OUT A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO AS COMMISSION AS FAR AS MEETINGS AND VOTING AND STUFF, SO THAT WE DON'T NEED TO STICK IT IN THE CHARTER.

WE CAN PUT IT WHERE WE CAN GET TO IT AND AMEND IT IF NECESSARY, AND SO I NOTICED THERE'S A PARENT MEETING FOR THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB STAFF TO MEET WITH THEIR CHARGES.

SO WE'RE HOPING ALL OF THAT COMES OUT SMOOTHLY, AND I WOULD LIKE TO WISH COMMISSIONER, I MEAN, KEVIN HOGENCAMP.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY. OH, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KEVIN.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

COMMISSIONER BOLE. YEAH, REAL QUICK.

I'LL SAVE IT TO THE END, BUT, COMMISSIONER KELLY, YOU'RE RIGHT.

I THINK WE NEED A STANDARDIZED TEMPLATE.

AS WE PICK PEOPLE FOR COMMITTEES, WE PICK THEM FOR THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE.

WE PICK THEM FOR CITY MANAGER.

NOT ONE THAT LACES US INTO THE PROGRAM, BUT ONE GIVES US FREEDOM.

[01:35:03]

I KNOW IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IT'S VERY CLEAR AS YOU GO TO STEP A STEP B AND YOU TURN BACK.

SO I'M GOING TO WORK ON THAT AND BRING A RESOLUTION THAT WE CAN PUT INTO THE PROGRAM.

I, FOR ONE, AM EXCITED ABOUT MR. KILLINGSWORTH. I THINK HE'S A GAME CHANGER FOR US AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE HAVE MAYOR DEEGAN, WE HAVE COMMISSIONER BRITTANY NORRIS. WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO WORKS ON THE INSIDE OF DUVAL COUNTY RIGHT NOW.

I'VE PERSONALLY TALKED TO THEM ABOUT THE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT, AND THAT IS KEY TO US MOVING FORWARD.

THIS COULD BE ONE OF THE BIGGEST DECISIONS WE'VE MADE THIS YEAR.

SO I'M EXCITED, AND HE'S GOING TO BRING A WEALTH OF EXPERIENCE TO US.

THANKS. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

COMMISSIONER RING.

I ECHO THAT ABOUT KILLINGSWORTH.

I THINK THAT HE'LL BRING A WHOLE OTHER SIDE OF THINGS TO OUR CITY, AND I'M EXCITED TO SEE HIM WORK WITH US.

SO HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET A NEGOTIATED CONTRACT.

THIS TIME IT'S BACK TO SCHOOL.

FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL TODAY.

JUST WANT TO TELL EVERYONE, WATCH OUT FOR THOSE SCHOOL ZONES.

IT IS 15, AND THEN I WANTED TO THANK CAPTAIN PHILLIPS AND THE LIFEGUARDS FOR ALL THEY DO, KEEPING OUR BEACHES SAFE AND ALL THAT DEDICATION AND HARD WORK BECAUSE IT IS HOT OUTSIDE.

SO I KNOW IT'S NOT EASY.

ONE LAST THING.

BEACHES ACTIVIST MOVEMENT IS HOSTING A BACK TO SCHOOL BOOK BASH AT DONNER PARK THIS SATURDAY, AND THAT'S FROM 11 UNTIL TWO.

THEY'LL BE GIVING AWAY BOOKS AND SCHOOL SUPPLIES FOR ALL FAMILIES WHO ARE INTERESTED, AND THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER WATERS.

I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO CONTRIBUTE AT THIS POINT.

I'LL WAIT. THANK YOU.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE ONE COMMENT.

I SPENT THREE DAYS IN ORLANDO AT THE FLORIDA LEAGUE OF CITIES CONFERENCE.

IT WAS EDUCATIONAL, INFORMATIVE, FUN, MADE LOTS OF GOOD CONTACTS.

SOME OF THE THINGS I FELT PRETTY GOOD THAT I ALREADY KNEW, BUT SOME THINGS I DIDN'T, AND THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT TOPICS.

STORMWATER INSURANCE ISSUES.

HOW TO MAKE YOUR CITY MORE ATTRACTIVE AND DESIRABLE.

SO THERE WERE SO MANY REALLY, REALLY GOOD THINGS, BUT I, I THINK THE CITY FOR MAKING SURE I ATTENDED THAT LOOK FORWARD TO NEXT YEAR AND ACTUALLY ADVANCING THE CAUSE.

SO THANKS.

NOW WE'LL MOVE TO WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO GO TO RESOLUTIONS ITEM EIGHT EIGHT.

A FIRST RESOLUTION IS NUMBER 23-26 FOR RECONSIDERATION WITH AMENDMENTS.

[8.A. RESOLUTION NO. 23-26]

PARCEL ID NUMBER 1721180000 AND 1721190000.

AND FINALLY, PARCEL NUMBER 1721220000 FOR THE PRICE OF $1,075,000, DESIGNATING AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT FUNDS TO BE USED FOR THIS PURPOSE, AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE CONTRACTS, COMPLETE DUE DILIGENCE EFFORTS AND PURCHASE ORDERS IN ACCORDANCE WITH AND AS NECESSARY TO EFFECTUATE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS RESOLUTION PROVIDING FOR CONFLICTS AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS? I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 23-26 AS AMENDED.

SECOND. JUST TO PUT IT IN THE RIGHT POSTURE, I THINK THE FIRST VOTE WOULD BE TO RECONSIDER WITH A SECOND AND THEN APOLOGIZE.

YOU'RE RIGHT. OKAY.

SO WOULD YOU SECOND MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 23-26 RECONSIDERED WITH AMENDMENTS? SECOND. THIRD.

SECOND. OKAY.

IS THIS JUST FOR THE RECONSIDERATION? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OPPOSED.

THAT MOTION CARRIES.

SO NOW THE NEXT MOTION WOULD BE WHETHER WE WISH TO APPROVE THIS.

AMEND THIS CHANGED RESOLUTION.

MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 23-26 AS AMENDED.

SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.

DONNA, YOU HAD AN ISSUE.

A QUESTION? YOU GUYS ARE MOVING FAST.

[01:40:03]

YEAH, IT'S VERY SIMPLE, AND THAT'S WHAT THE AMENDMENT CAPTURES.

THE AMENDMENT CAPTURES THE NEW PSA THAT'S PUT IN FRONT OF YOU.

VERY MINOR REVISIONS TO IT.

I THINK THERE WAS A ON THE ESCROW AGREEMENT ATTACHMENT, THERE WAS A SWITCH BETWEEN THE BUYER AND THE SELLER.

SO WE CORRECTED THAT AND JUST CLARIFYING THE 45 DAY INSPECTION PERIOD OR FEASIBILITY PERIOD, THAT'S ALL.

SO WE'LL JUST INCLUDE THAT INTO THE AMENDMENT THAT MR. BOLE MOVED AND MS. KELLY SECONDED.

OKAY, DISCUSSION.

THIS IS OUR CITY ENGINEER WHO'S AN EXPERT, HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS MANY TIMES.

THIS SAVES US MONEY IN THE LONG RUN AS FAR AS RESILIENCY, STORMWATER.

ET CETERA. ET CETERA.

THIS IS AN INVESTMENT IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND OUR EXPERTS HAVE TOLD ME THAT LONG TERM, THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO, AND I TRUST THEM, AND I THINK THIS IS A GREAT THING FOR THE CITY.

IT'S ACTUALLY KIND OF AN UPGRADE TO THE ORIGINAL PLAN.

RIGHT. KEEPING THAT IN MIND, STEVE SWANN ALSO AGREED THAT IF WE PURCHASE THIS PROPERTY AND WE DO FIND ENVIRONMENTAL LIABILITIES, WE CANNOT PUT A MITIGATION POND, AND SO GOING FROM 45 DAYS IN WHICH WE SAID WE WANTED 90, I BELIEVE STEVE SAID THAT IS WHAT WE NEEDED, AND SO WE ALL AGREED ON THAT, AND NOW WE'RE STUCK AGAIN BACK AT 45.

OKAY. MR. SWANN, CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT? WELL, A 45 IS ALL WE'RE GOING TO GET.

WE'LL DO THE BEST WE CAN IN 45 DAYS, AND IF WE'RE NOT TOTALLY COMFORTABLE AND YOU'RE NOT TOTALLY COMFORTABLE, WE'LL WALK FROM THE DEAL.

OKAY. IF THERE'S IF THERE'S QUESTIONS WE CAN'T ANSWER OR IF WE DISCOVER THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED MORE TIME TO ADDRESS.

IF THE SELLER IS NOT WILLING TO GIVE US MORE TIME, WE'LL WALK.

THAT'S THE GRAY I NEEDED CLEARED UP, STEVE.

OKAY, SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT EVEN THOUGH WE WANTED THE 90 DAYS AND THAT WAS REALLY PART OF YOUR RECOMMENDATION AS WELL AS BEING THE EXPERT AND NEEDING THAT 90 DAYS LIKE IN THE 90 DAYS LIKING THE 90 DAYS, AND ALSO MR. POWELL, WHO IS A HAS A DOCTORATE IN ENGINEERING, SUGGESTED AS WELL, BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT IS THAT 45 DAYS, IF WE DO FIND THE BURIED TREASURE OR ENVIRONMENTAL LIABILITIES AND WE CAN'T PUT IN A MITIGATION POND, THEN WE'VE NOT JUST WASTED $1.75 MILLION.

THAT'S RIGHT. I NEEDED TO HEAR THAT, STEVE, AND I APPRECIATE IT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY. HEARING NONE.

WE'LL TAKE A VOTE.

ALL IN FAVOR. SIGNIFY WITH AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED.

MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.

THANK YOU IT'S.

OKAY. ITEM 8B, RESOLUTION NUMBER 23-28, A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH, FLORIDA, AWARDING BID

[8.B. RESOLUTION NO. 23-28]

MR. GERRITY.

STEVE, COULD YOU COME UP HERE? TROY EXPLAINED THIS TO ME, AND I KNOW I'LL MESS IT UP, SO I'LL JUST LET YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.

YEAH. WHAT THIS PROJECT IS, IT'S NOT.

IT'S NOT TO SERVE ANY PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT.

IT WILL END UP SERVING A HABITAT COMMUNITY THAT'S GOING TO BE RIGHT THERE, BUT WHAT IT DOES, IT TIES IN THE SOUTH END OF OUR POTABLE WATER DISTRIBUTION GRID WITH THE NORTH END OF OUR GRID IN THIS AREA.

SO IT IMPROVES PRESSURE AND FLOW THROUGHOUT THAT WHOLE SIDE OF THE CITY.

IT'S A PROJECT THAT WE'VE BEEN WANTING TO DO FOR QUITE SOME TIME THAT'LL HELP US OUT.

SO SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THIS IS NOT JUST FOR ONE PARCEL.

THIS IS IMPROVING PRESSURE BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH ALONG THE CORRIDOR.

WE HAD THIS PROJECT PLANNED BEFORE HABITAT CAME ALONG AND CAME ALONG, AND ACTUALLY HABITAT'S KIND OF BEEN WAITING FOR US TO GET THIS PROJECT IN BECAUSE IT'LL MAKE IT MORE INEXPENSIVE FOR THEM TO BUILD THEIR WATER SYSTEM.

OKAY. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STEVE.

WAS THIS ALREADY IN THE BUDGET? YES, IT WAS.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF LIKE THE GO/NO-GO POINT THAT BEFORE WE SPEND THE MONEY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN THE BUDGET, YOU GUYS COME BACK TO US AND SAY, ARE YOU SURE YOU STILL WANT TO DO THIS? CORRECT, AND OUR GO/NO-GO POINT IS, WE EVALUATE THE NEED FOR A PROJECT AND WE IDENTIFY A BUDGET FOR THE PROJECT, AND IF THE BIDS COME BACK TOO HIGH, THAT'S OUR GO/NO-GO POINT.

IS IT WORTH IT? IS IT NOT? IN THIS CASE WE HAD ACTUALLY BID IT OUT WITH A LINE CROSSING MAYPORT ROAD THAT WOULD HAVE WORKED OUT EVEN BETTER BUT THE COSTS WERE SO EXORBITANTLY HIGH WE AXED THAT PART OF THE PROJECT AND ARE JUST KEEPING THE SMALLER PORTION OF IT.

[01:45:07]

THIS IS NEAR CALIBER COLLISION ON MAYPORT RD.

WELL ACTUALLY IT'S ON THE WEST.

IS THIS ON THE EAST SIDE OR THE WEST ON THE WEST SIDE, BUT THE ORIGINAL PROJECT WAS A LINE COMING ACROSS MAYPORT ROAD CALIBER AUTO LINE.

SO THIS. YEAH. IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF AUTO LINE.

YEAH. GOT IT, AND IF I MIGHT, MR. MAYOR, TO COMMISSIONER KELLY'S POINT, THIS IS WHY ANYTHING OVER $25,000 WE BRING TO YOU FOR YOUR APPROVAL.

OKAY.

IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? I MAKE A MOTION WE ADOPT RESOLUTION NUMBER 23-28 SECOND.

OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.

SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED.

MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.

THANK YOU.

ITEM 8C RESOLUTION NUMBER 23-29, A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF ATLANTIC BEACH, FLORIDA, AWARDING BID NUMBER 2223-03 PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING

[8.C. RESOLUTION NO. 23-29]

AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE THE CONTRACTS AND PURCHASE ORDERS IN ACCORDANCE WITH AND AS NECESSARY TO EFFECTUATE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS RESOLUTION AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

MR. GERRITY. THANK YOU.

AS YOU KNOW, MR. WILLIAMS IS SITTING BACK THERE.

OUR PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, PATIENTLY, AND THIS PROJECT WAS ORIGINALLY BID AT $2 MILLION.

THERE'S BEEN SOME QUESTIONS, SCOTT, HOW YOU GOT IT DOWN TO A WORKABLE NUMBER.

SO I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE FLOOR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SCOTT WILLIAMS, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR.

FIVE MONTHS AND ONE WEEK AGO, THIS PROJECT BID AND LIKE MR. GERRITY JUST SAID, IT BID FOR $1.98 MILLION.

WE AT THAT POINT GOT WITH THE CONTRACTOR AND THE CONTRACTOR SAID THAT THERE WAS SEVERAL AREAS THAT HE FELT LIKE WAS VERY NEGOTIABLE , AND WE TALKED WITH PATTY DRAKE, OUR PROCUREMENT PERSON, WHO ALSO HAD TO GO TO MR. GABRIEL, TALK TO HIM AND MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS UNCONSCIOUSLY.

STEVE SWANN, MYSELF AND PATTY DRAKE ALL MET WITH THE CONTRACTOR ON PROBABLY FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES AND NEGOTIATED DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THE CONTRACT HAD IN IT, AND THEN THEY AFTER WE GOT EVERYTHING SETTLED DOWN TO WHERE WE FELT LIKE WE WERE GETTING A VERY GOOD PRODUCT, THEN WE CALLED THE ZONA PEOPLE BACK IN THE DESIGNERS OF THE BUILDING AND WANTED TO TALK WITH THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY COULD ACCEPT SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT WE HAD MADE, WHICH AT THAT POINT THEY FELT LIKE EVERYTHING THAT WE HAD DONE WAS 100% GOOD, AND SO ATLANTIC COAST, WHICH WAS THE CONTRACTOR, WENT BACK TO HIS DRAWING BOARD AND DREW US UP A NEW PROPOSAL FOR THE WORK, AND THAT WAS THE ONE POINT.

LET ME FIND IT. 1.493930.66.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

WE'RE LOOKING AT A BUILDING THAT'S 43 YEARS OLD.

THAT'S A TEN BUILDING, AND WHAT THE PLAN IS, IS TO TAKE THE OUTSIDE SKIN, TAKE IT COMPLETELY OFF, MAKE IT INTO BLOCK, REPLACE ALL THE INSULATION BETWEEN THE OUTSIDE SKIN AND THE BUILDING, GO UP INTO THE OFFICES AND MOVE SOME WALLS AROUND, REDO ELECTRICITY, ELECTRIC, REDO SOME OF THE AIR CONDITIONING, TAKE OUT THE MOLD AND THE ROOFS AND REPLACE THE ROOF TO MAKE IT TO WHERE IT FLOWS.

WATER BETTER THAN WHAT IT DOES NOW, WHICH IS NOT VERY GOOD RIGHT NOW, AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE COMING TO COMMISSION TONIGHT FOR, IS TO ASK PERMISSION TO GIVE THE CITY MANAGER PERMISSION TO SIGN A CONTRACT AND LET US MOVE ON WITH THE PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING.

YOU WAITED A LONG TIME FOR THIS.

I HAVE.

CAN YOU HELP ME BUY A BOAT? YOU JUST NEGOTIATED A HALF MILLION DOLLARS.

[CHUCKLING] PRETTY GOOD.

I'M PRETTY GOOD AT NEGOTIATING.

I LIKE THAT. ON THIS ONE HERE, MY NERVES ARE AT MY END I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO, AND I JUST THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT NEEDS.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.

SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER 23-29? I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 23-29.

SECOND. ALL RIGHTY.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SIGNIFY WITH AYE.

AYE. OPPOSED.

SCOTT, WHERE ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO GO IN THE MEANTIME?

[01:50:02]

WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. YEAH THEIR PLAN IS TO WATCH THE MEETING TONIGHT.

THEIR PLAN IS TO START TOMORROW.

ORDERING MATERIAL IF IT VOTED YES, AND IN THE PROCESS, WE'RE GOING TO START FIGURING OUT THE CONTRACT AND EVERYTHING.

PRICES ARE THERE, AND WE'VE GOT BASICALLY TILL SEPTEMBER 11TH TO BE OUT OF THE BUILDING.

THANK YOU, SCOTT. THANK YOU.

OKAY. WE'LL MOVE TO ITEM 11.

CITY ATTORNEY. ANY COMMENTS? NO, SIR. OKAY.

CITY CLERK. ALL RIGHT.

ITEM 12 CLOSING COMMENTS BY CITY COMMISSIONERS.

[12. CLOSING COMMENTS BY CITY COMMISSIONERS AND CITY MANAGER]

YEAH, THREE GREAT THINGS TONIGHT.

IN MY OPINION, THE PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING THAT.

THAT'S INFRASTRUCTURE WE NEED TO DO DOOR DRIVE THAT BUILDS RESILIENCY INTO THE CITY AND OUR NEW CITY MANAGER, WHICH I HEARTILY ENDORSE.

THANKS. COMMISSIONER KELLY.

WHAT HE SAID. GOOD.

THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER RING.

I HAVE NOTHING.

COMMISSIONER WATERS. IT'S BEEN A BATTLE, I'VE REALIZED YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE THICK SKIN TO DO THIS, BUT I'M VERY I FEEL VERY GOOD ABOUT OUR STANDING RIGHT NOW. WE HAVE SOME THINGS TO DO BUT FEEL VERY GOOD ABOUT IT ALL, AND THIS WE'VE ALL WORKED VERY HARD AT IT SO WELL, AND IF I MAY JUST CONCLUDE, THIS COMMISSION HAS PUT IN A LOT OF TIME ON A NUMBER OF PROJECTS, SPECIFICALLY THE MOST RECENT CITY MANAGER.

SO I COMMEND EACH OF YOU.

I KNOW WE'RE NOT PERFECT.

WE'VE MADE ERRORS, BUT I THINK WE'VE DONE A LOT OF THINGS RIGHT, AND IN THE END, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET A VERY GOOD CITY MANAGER.

SO IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER COMMENTS, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.

YOU SKIPPED ME AGAIN.

OH, SORRY, DID. [CHUCKLING]

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.