Dec 09, 2024 Commission Workshop

[00:00:01]

EVERYBODY READY? THIS MEETING OF THE THIS COMMISSION MEETING, THE COMMISSION WORKSHOP OF THE CITY OF

[CALL TO ORDER]

TODAY IS MONDAY, DECEMBER 9TH, 2024.

LET'S SEE IF, LET'S GO AHEAD AND START WITH A PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.

ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

THANK YOU.

SO THIS IS A VERY INFORMAL PROCESS.

WE'LL GET SOME CONSENSUS HERE AND THERE ON PROCEDURAL CHANGES.

IF WE WISH TO MAKE THOSE.

WE'RE GOING TO START WITH ITEM ONE, A REGULAR AND ACTUALLY FIRST I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE EVERYBODY GOT ONE OF THESE HANDBOOKS.

I THINK EVERYBODY GOT ONE.

SO THOSE OF US WHO'VE BEEN ON THIS DAIS ALREADY HAVE ONE MAYBE.

ARE THERE ANY CHANGES IN IT, BILL? THERE MAY BE SOME UPDATES, I THINK, LIKE THE DOCUMENTS REGARDING THE VISION AND THE MISSION AND THE PRIORITIES HAS BEEN UPDATED BASED ON THE COMMISSION UPDATING THOSE.

AND 1 OR 2 OTHER DOCUMENTS MAY HAVE BEEN UPDATED BASED ON CHANGES SINCE THE LAST TIME, BUT THE BULK OF IT IS LARGELY THE SAME.

OKAY, GOOD.

ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE DIRECTLY INTO TOPICS.

[1.A. Regular meetings]

AB CODE SECTION 2-16, TIME AND PLACE IN REGULAR MEETINGS.

DONNA. OKAY.

THANK YOU. MAYOR. SO AS FAR AS REGULAR MEETINGS GO THE SCHEDULE FOR THAT IS IN OUR ORDINANCES.

SO IF YOU MADE ANY CHANGE, WANTED TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THAT, YOU WOULD DO IT BY ORDINANCE.

IT'S CURRENTLY IN SECTION 2-16.

THE MEETINGS ARE THE SECOND AND FOURTH MONDAYS, EXCEPT FOR DECEMBER WHICH IS THERE'S ONLY THE FIRST MEETING, WHICH IS THE SECOND MONDAY IN DECEMBER BECAUSE OF THE HOLIDAYS.

AND ANYTIME THERE'S A HOLIDAY THAT FALLS ON A MONDAY OF THE COMMISSION MEETING, WE HAVE IT ON THE TUESDAY.

OKAY. AND I GUESS THIS IS THE TIME TO ASK IF ANYONE FEELS LIKE THEY'D LIKE TO MAKE A CHANGE TO THAT MEETING SCHEDULE.

WE COULD GET CONSENSUS TO BRING BACK AN ORDINANCE.

GO AHEAD. BILL.

DONNA, IF THEY'RE INTERESTED IN CHANGING THE TIME, DOES THAT REQUIRE AN ORDINANCE CHANGE? YES, SIR. OKAY.

SO, YEAH, I'M JUST CURIOUS.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE A DESIRE TO GO TO SIX ON THE START TIME? I DON'T MIND IF WE WANT TO GO.

WELL, RIGHT NOW WE DO OUR WORKSHOPS AT SIX.

WE DO OUR MEETINGS AT 630 AND IT CONFUSES PEOPLE SOMETIMES.

I'VE HAD THEM SHOW UP AT 630 FOR THE 6:00 WORKSHOP.

THINKING THAT IT'S THE SAME OR AT 630 IS JUST KIND OF WEIRD.

BUT THE REAL QUESTION IS FOR SOMEBODY WHO HAS CHILDREN AND A JOB, HOW DOES THAT WORK? MY ONLY APPREHENSION IS IF WE DO OUR BUDGET WORKSHOPS BEFORE 530.

SO WHEN WE HAVE OUR BUDGET WORKSHOPS OR THIS WORKSHOPS 5:30 I WORK, SO I'M NOT RETIRED.

I CANNOT GET HERE BEFORE 5:30.

YES. SO, IF THE COMMISSION CHOSE TO CHANGE IT TO SIX, WE WOULD TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.

WE WOULD EITHER WORK WORKSHOPS INTO, LIKE THE CITY MANAGER REPORT OR WE WOULD CHOOSE A SEPARATE DATE.

BUT YEAH, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SOME ADVANTAGES, AS EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS, EXCEPT FOR COMMISSIONER GRANT FOR THE BUDGET WORKSHOPS.

I JUST ROLLED THOSE INTO THE 5:30 BEFORE REGULAR COMMISSION MEETINGS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IF THE COMMISSION IS NOT ADVERSE, I'M NOT ADVERSE TO JUST MAKING THAT PART OF THE COMMISSION MEETING, HAVING A WORKSHOP UPFRONT DURING THE CITY MANAGER REPORTS OR SCHEDULING IT FOR AN ALTERNATE TIME PERIOD.

YEAH, I'M FOR SIX.

AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY.

IT'S THE CITY STAFF.

A LOT OF THEM WORK AND THEN WAIT FOR THE MEETING.

RIGHT. AND SOME OF THEM DON'T WANT TO HANG AROUND.

SO THAT WOULD SAVE SOME TIME AND OF THEIR TIME.

YEAH, BUT WE HAD A MEETING SIX AND IT WOULD ACTUALLY ELIMINATE DOING 5:30 STARTS ON SPECIAL MEETINGS OR WORKSHOPS.

AND I THINK 5:30 IS A LITTLE TIGHT FOR CITIZENS TO MAKE IT TO.

SO IF YOU WORK DOWNTOWN, IT SURE DOES.

YEAH. SO SIX I THINK MIGHT BE A GOOD MOVE.

DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS TO MOVE? OKAY, THEN LET'S WRITE THAT ORDINANCE.

ALL RIGHT.

[00:05:01]

IT SAYS 6:30. JUST CHANGE IT TO SIX.

SO, ONE QUESTION ON THAT.

YOU KNOW THAT THE CITY'S BEEN DOING THIS FOR AT LEAST HOW LONG? I MEAN, HOW ARE WE GOING TO PUBLICIZE THAT? BECAUSE THERE'S PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY SHOW UP AT 6:30.

OH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

SO, I'LL LET KEVIN JUMP ON THAT.

BUT WE'LL HIGHLIGHT ALL OF THAT ON OUR YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING, OUR WEBSITE GROUP.

SO IT'S GOING TO TAKE AN ORDINANCE CHANGE RIGHT.

SO IT WILL THAT'S GOING TO TAKE AT LEAST TWO CYCLES.

SO IT WOULDN'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL FEBRUARY.

BUT SO WE CAN START PROMOTING IT PRIOR TO THAT.

RIGHT. I WILL SAY MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE OTHER TWO BEACHES BOTH START AT SIX AS WELL.

OKAY. THANKS.

OKAY. ARE YOU ASKING FOR US? I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

OR ARE YOU WANTING TO THE CITIZENS TO KNOW ABOUT IT BEFORE THE CHANGES MADE, OR DID YOU WANT THEM TO KNOW ABOUT THE CHANGE? SO, I'M WONDERING IF WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND SEE IF IT GETS CHANGED, AND THEN PUT MAYBE A DELAY ON ITS EFFECTIVE DATE UNTIL WE HEAVILY I DON'T PROMOTE IT.

I DON'T SEE A NEED FOR THAT.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE PUBLICIZED BECAUSE IT'S AN ORDINANCE, RIGHT? YES. I WASN'T SURE IF TWO CYCLES WAS ENOUGH.

THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING.

I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT TOO MUCH BEFORE JANUARY.

YES. OKAY.

DONNA, ARE YOU DONE? PHIL'S GOING TO TOUCH ON THE OTHER TYPES OF MEETINGS, BUT JUST AS A STANDARD, WE POST THE MEETINGS ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE CALENDAR AND ON THE BULLETIN BOARD AT CITY HALL.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU GET THE AGENDA SENT OUT TO YOU.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS ON OUR AGENDA LIST THAT GETS THE AGENDAS AS WELL.

AND PUBLIC HEARINGS.

WE PUBLISH THOSE IN THE BEACH'S LEADER.

MOST ORDINANCES ONLY REQUIRE ONE OF THE TWO READINGS TO BE A PUBLIC HEARING.

BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN TYPES OF ORDINANCES, SUCH AS CHAPTER 24 STUFF AND THE OPERATING BUDGET, THE ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGET THAT GETS SPECIAL OVER AND ABOVE THE NORMAL.

OKAY. VERY GOOD.

WORKSHOPS. BILL.

THANK YOU. MAYOR. SO BASICALLY, WE DO THREE TYPES OF WORKSHOPS.

WE DO A PRIORITY SETTING ANNUALLY.

I DON'T THINK WE'LL SEE A VISIONING THIS NEXT YEAR.

YOU DEFINITELY SEE A BUDGET AND PROJECTS.

SO IN TERMS OF PROJECTS, I HAVE NOT BEEN DOING THOSE AS SEPARATE WORKSHOPS.

YOU'LL SEE TONIGHT ON THE COMMISSION MEETING.

WE HAVE THE AHERN STREET UPDATE ON THAT.

WE DO HOLD WORKSHOPS FOR PROJECTS, BUT THEY'RE MORE FOR PUBLIC INPUT.

SO MY INCLINATION IS NOT TO HOLD A STANDALONE WORKSHOP FOR COMMISSION JUST TO INCORPORATE THAT INTO THE COMMISSION MEETING, WHICH IS WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING, UNLESS THE COMMISSION WOULD PREFER THAT I NOT DO THAT.

THE PRIORITY SETTING ONE, WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO HAVE A SEPARATE WORKSHOP.

THAT ONE TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND IT, IT THE COMMISSION GETS INPUT FROM OUR COMMITTEE CHAIRS AND FROM THE PUBLIC.

SO THAT ONE WILL BE A STANDALONE WORKSHOP.

THE BUDGET, GIVEN THAT THERE'S A CONSENSUS TO GO AT SIX, I WILL BETWEEN NOW AND THEN THINK ABOUT HOW WHETHER WE INCORPORATE THAT IS JUST THE CITY MANAGER'S.

AND I DO AS YOU KNOW, THE WORKSHOPS.

THERE'S NO ACTION BY THE COMMISSION.

IT'S TELLING YOU WHERE YOU'RE AT AND YOU'RE GIVING ME FEEDBACK ON IT.

AND THEN THE ACTION TAKES PLACE FROM THE COMMISSION WHEN THE ORDINANCE GETS FILED, AND THEN THAT'S WHEN YOU MAKE AMENDMENTS TO IT.

THERE MAY BE STANDALONE MEETINGS FOR THE BUDGET, BUT UNLESS I HEAR DIFFERENT, I'LL PROBABLY TRY TO PROBE THEM AND PROGRAM THEM INTO A REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING LAST TIME.

I DID MORE WORKSHOPS, BUT THEY WERE SHORTER, SO THEY WERE LIKE, 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR.

I DON'T KNOW THAT 45 MINUTES IS A BIG DRAIN ON A REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING.

TOWN HALLS, THE RESOLUTION 1308 HAS A COMMISSION HOLDING TOWN HALLS IN JANUARY, APRIL, JULY AND OCTOBER. YOU'LL SEE ON THE COMMISSION, ON THE REGULAR COMMISSION, THE 90 DAY CALENDAR.

WE'RE NOW POSTING THE DATES ON THOSE.

WE HAVE BEEN HOLDING THOSE ON SATURDAYS AT 10 A.M.

THERE'S NOTHING IN THE RESOLUTION THAT REQUIRES THAT.

IT'S PRETTY VAGUE.

THE ONLY REQUIREMENT IS THAT WE HAVE TWO ON THE WEST SIDE OF MAYPORT ROAD AND TWO ON THE EAST SIDE OF MAYPORT ROAD, AND THAT WE HAVE FOUR OF THEM.

SO THERE'S A QUESTION.

THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY IF THE COMMISSION WANTS TO CONTINUE TO DO TOWN HALL MEETINGS, IF THEY WANT TO DO THEM ON A DIFFERENT DAY OTHER THAN SATURDAY OR A DIFFERENT TIME OTHER THAN

[00:10:02]

I GUESS WE JUST NEED INPUT ON THAT.

WE'VE GOT PRETTY DECENT ATTENDANCE.

YES. YEAH. SO, I'M HAPPY WITH WHAT'S OCCURRING AT TOWN HALL, SO.

ALL RIGHT. I DON'T RECOMMEND ANY CHANGE.

COMMISSIONERS. GOOD.

COFFEE? OKAY. COFFEE.

OKAY. THERE YOU GO.

AND THEN WE OCCASIONALLY HAVE SPECIAL CALLED MEETINGS.

I HAVE NOT BEEN DOING A SPECIAL CALLED MEETING FOR APPEALS AND WAIVERS.

I'VE INCORPORATED THOSE INTO THE COMMISSION MEETING.

IF THERE WAS ONE THAT CAME UP THAT I HAD A SENSE, WAS GOING TO HAVE A HUGE PUBLIC OUTCRY AND WAS GOING TO TAKE CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME.

I MIGHT CONSIDER A SPECIAL MEETING FOR THAT, BUT IN GENERAL, THE ONES WE'VE SEEN SO FAR HAVE NOT ENTAILED THAT, AND I'VE JUST BEEN PUTTING THEM AT THE END OF THE AGENDA ON OUR REGULAR COMMISSION AGENDA.

AND THEN THERE POTENTIALLY COULD BE A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE A NON-DECLARED EMERGENCY.

IF IT'S A DECLARED EMERGENCY, THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM BECAUSE THE MAYOR AND I CAN GET TOGETHER AND AGREE THAT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING AND DO IT.

BUT IF THERE'S NOT A DECLARED EMERGENCY AND SOMETHING HAPPENS THAT REQUIRES AN ACTION GREATER THAN WHAT THE CITY MANAGER CAN DO ON HIS OWN, THEN WE HAVE TO HAVE AN EMERGENCY MEETING OF THE COMMISSION.

THERE HAVE NOT BEEN ANY OF THOSE IN THE LAST YEAR, SO THAT'S JUST KIND OF GOES OVER THE SPECIAL CALL MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE.

OKAY. AND UNLESS THERE'S AN OBJECTION WITH WAIVERS AND APPEALS, I'LL CONTINUE TO ADD THEM TO THE REGULAR COMMISSIONER.

NO OBJECTION. HEARD.

OKAY, FINE. AND THEN SCHEDULING AND CALENDAR BACK TO DON.

[1.B. Scheduling/Calendar]

IF YOU HAVE ANY VACATION PLANS, PLEASE LET THE CITY MANAGER KNOW, EITHER BY SENDING HIM AN EMAIL OR A CALENDAR INVITE.

I UNDERSTAND WORKS BEST.

HIS EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT CAN SEE THAT IF YOU SEND IT IN THAT WAY.

AND THIS IS THE TIME TO WHERE I THINK WE'VE ALREADY HEARD THAT SOME FOLKS HAVE A PROBLEM GETTING HERE LATER OR EARLIER THAN 530.

IS THAT STILL THE SAME? YES. OKAY.

SO, 5:30 IS THE EARLIEST.

IS THERE A PARTICULAR.

AND THIS IS FOR EVERYBODY.

IS THERE A PARTICULAR.

EVENING. THAT WILL NOT WORK FOR FOLKS SOMETIMES.

TUESDAY. TUESDAY.

OKAY, SO FOR WHEN THE MEETINGS ARE SCHEDULED, WHAT WE DO IS WE SEND OUT A CALENDAR INVITE TO EVERYONE.

IT'S. YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT IT IF YOU DON'T WANT IT ON YOUR CALENDAR.

THAT WAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO REACT TO ANYTHING.

IT'S NOT GOING TO SAY WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE ABLE TO ATTEND OR NOT.

IT'S JUST MERELY A TOOL THAT YOU CAN USE TO PUT IT ON YOUR CALENDAR OR NOT.

AND WHEN WE SEND THOSE OUT IT MAKES US PUT SOME KIND OF ENDING DATE.

BUT OUR MEETINGS DO NOT HAVE ENDING DATES.

IT GETS TRICKY WHEN YOU PUT ENDING DATES ON MEETINGS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GIVE PUBLIC NOTICE TO MEETINGS.

SO JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THOSE ENDING DATES DON'T MEAN ANYTHING WHEN YOU GET A CALENDAR INVITE FROM US.

LET'S SEE.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE TIMELY RESPONSES TO OUR EMAILS TO YOU A LOT OF TIMES.

YOU KNOW, WE TRY NOT TO REACH OUT TO YOU UNLESS WE HAVE TO.

AND THEN IT'S USUALLY BECAUSE WE NEED AN ANSWER ON SOMETHING.

AND THE 90 DAY CALENDAR YOU'LL NOTICE, IS ON EVERY AGENDA PACKET.

UNDER THE CITY MANAGER'S REPORT, CITY MANAGER PUTS THAT TOGETHER.

AND THERE'LL BE EVENTS THAT ARE MARKED TENTATIVE.

SO IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA TO CHECK YOUR CALENDAR BEFORE THE MEETING OR BRING IT INTO THE MEETING, AND THAT WILL BE THE TIME TO LET HIM KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN TURN IT INTO A SCHEDULED MEETING RATHER THAN JUST TENTATIVE AND I THINK THAT'S IT ON THAT. DONNA, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE 90 DAY CALENDAR AND THE USAGE OF OUTLOOK? I UTILIZE OUTLOOK HEAVILY, AND I DO APPRECIATE THAT THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE SENDS OUT ALL THE MEETING INVITES, AND I KNOW THE CITY MANAGER DOES AS WELL WITH ADRIANA, YOUR EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT.

[00:15:01]

SHE'S NO LONGER HERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE SOMEBODY WHO STEPPED UP TO SEND THOSE INVITES.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT GOES THROUGH THE CLERK'S OFFICE, IF THAT GOES THROUGH THE MANAGER'S OFFICE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE THE BOARD MEMBER VOLUNTEER DINNER THAT WE HAD, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO HAVE AN INVITE SENT TO YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE.

SO IF IT'S ON THE 90 DAY CALENDAR, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

I KNOW, I KNOW, KATRINA IS NO LONGER HERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE VERONICA OR WHO IT WOULD GO TO, BUT I FIND IT VERY HELPFUL.

YEAH. BILL, ARE YOU GOING TO LOOK INTO THAT? I'VE MADE A NOTE OF IT.

I KNOW FOR THE BOARD MEMBER APPRECIATION THAT ADRIANA SENT OUT.

I DON'T KNOW IF SHE SENT OUT AN INVITE OR IF SHE JUST CALLED AND SENT EMAILS.

BUT I'LL LOOK AT ENSURING THAT ALL OF THE PARK AND REC EVENTS THAT YOU GET ACTUALLY GET AN OUTLOOK IN PLACE FOR THEM.

OKAY. THANK ME.

OKAY. DO WE WANT TO DO IT ACROSS THE BOARD FOR EVERYONE THEN OR.

YES. INSTEAD OF TRYING TO DO OKAY.

FOR EXAMPLE, EVEN THE PERFORMANCE EVALUATIONS THAT CAME UP THE DUE DATE, IF IT'S HR, HUMAN RESOURCES WHO IS PROVIDING THAT DEADLINE THAT IT GETS SENT IN AN INVITATION IN A CALENDAR INVITE.

THIS IS THE DUE DATE.

HERE'S THE LINK TO THE FORMS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL TO, YOU KNOW.

SO THAT'S ON OUR CALENDAR.

FOR MY PROFESSION, I USE IT WITHOUT OUTLOOK I WOULD BE LOST.

SO AND NOW THAT WE HAVE MICROSOFT, THE NEWEST OFFICE, WE CAN UTILIZE IT.

AND I WISH WE WOULD USE IT, UTILIZE IT MORE FOR READ ONLY.

I COULDN'T PROVIDE THEM WITH FORMS. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE STAFF EVALUATIONS.

OH, REALLY? WERE THOSE READ ONLY? THAT COULD BE ME, BUT I, I COULDN'T I HAD TO WRITE THEM BY HAND BECAUSE I COULDN'T OPEN THEM.

OKAY, WE'LL TAKE NOTE.

AND I DO HAVE WORD THAT YOU WANT, YOU WANT TO FORM FILL IN.

IT SOUNDS LIKE. YEAH.

OKAY. WELL. I DON'T HAVE A PRINTER.

MY LIFE IS BETTER BECAUSE OF IT.

SO, I'LL GET A PROCESS TOGETHER THAT SENDS OUT PARK AND REC INVITES.

WE'LL SEND IT OUT TO OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

THAT WAY, THAT PREVENTS SOMEBODY INADVERTENTLY BEING LEFT OFF.

RIGHT. SO. AND I'LL ASK THEM TO SEND IT WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS AS A BLIND COPY, BECAUSE THAT WAY, IF YOU RESPOND AND ASK A SPECIFIC QUESTION, YOU'LL RESPOND BACK TO WHOEVER SAYS IT.

IT'S NOT A RESPOND BACK TO EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD.

IT JUST HELPS US PREVENT A SUNSHINE VIOLATION.

IF YOU NOTICED, I SEND BUYING COPIES WHENEVER I SEND THINGS JUST SO THAT WE DON'T INADVERTENTLY GENERATE A CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE COMMISSIONERS.

YEAH, SURE.

OKAY. SURE.

AND THEN, SORRY, JUST TO CLARIFY, JUST ALL 90 DAY EVENTS.

CAN WE JUST GO AHEAD AND MAKE ALL 90 DAY CALENDAR EVENTS THAT GET APPROVED TO SOMEHOW GO ON TO OUR OUTLOOK? YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S A LUNCHEON THAT'S COMING UP.

AN EMPLOYEE LUNCHEON.

I KNOW, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO, FOR APPRECIATION OF OUR EMPLOYEES TO REMEMBER TO GO TO THAT.

SO EVEN THAT GO ON AN OUTLOOK CALENDAR.

YEAH. WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT.

I THINK THE AND KEVIN CORRECT ME.

THE 90 DAY CALENDAR IS PULLED OFF THE OFFICIAL CITY CALENDAR.

RIGHT. OKAY.

SO, WE'LL TRY TO PUT AS MUCH ON THERE AS WE CAN.

THANK YOU. OKAY.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE ABOUT SCHEDULING.

OKAY. THEN CAN WE MOVE TO ITEM 1.C AGENDAS?

[1.C. Agendas ]

BY DECEMBER EVERY YEAR, WE HAVE THEM TOGETHER AND WE COME UP WITH A TIMELINE, WHICH IS IN YOUR ORIENTATION NOTEBOOK, BUT BASICALLY 11 DAYS PRIOR TO THE REGULAR MEETING, WE HAVE THE DRAFT AGENDA PUBLISHED.

THEN THE FINAL AGENDA WILL BE PUBLISHED THE WEDNESDAY BEFORE THE MEETING.

SO THAT'S LIKE FIVE DAYS PRIOR TO THE MEETING.

AND EVERY NOW AND THEN WE'LL HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO ADD TO IT.

BEYOND THAT.

AND ANYTHING AFTER THAT IS CALLED AN AMENDED AGENDA.

SO WE USUALLY TRY TO GET AN AMENDED AGENDA OUT BY FRIDAY BEFORE THE MEETING, UNLESS THERE'S AN EMERGENCY, AND THEN IT COULD BE FURTHER AMENDED.

[00:20:01]

WHAT IS THE TIME? THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO PICK THEM UP ON FRIDAY THAT WE CAN.

SO, I'VE COME BEFORE AND IT'S NOT READY.

YEAH, A LOT OF TIMES WELL, WE GOT AWAY FROM PRINTING THEM IMMEDIATELY AFTER WE DID THE FINAL BECAUSE THERE WERE TIMES WHEN THERE WERE AMENDMENTS AND IT WAS A LOT OF REPRINTING AND A LOT OF OUR OTHER PROCESSES HAVE TO HAPPEN WHEN WE KNOW FOR SURE WHAT'S GOING TO BE ON AN AGENDA. SO IT PUSHES EVERYTHING OFF.

BUT SO WE CHANGED IT TO FRIDAY.

BUT IF WE HAVE SOME KIND OF INDICATION THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING CHANGING, WE'LL PUT IT OFF UNTIL WE KNOW FOR SURE.

SO IT MIGHT NOT BE TILL FRIDAY AFTERNOON.

OKAY. BUT IF YOU WANT TO CALL US AND ASK US IF IT'S PRINTED BEFORE YOU COME OUT HERE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

UNLESS YOU NEED US TO SEND YOU AN EMAIL LETTING YOU KNOW WHEN IT WAS PRINTED.

AND THAT WOULD BE NICE.

YEAH. OR A TEXT.

OKAY, NOT EVERYONE GETS A PRINTED AGENDA.

IF YOU WANT TO PRINT AN AGENDA AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING ONE NOW, LET US KNOW.

OKAY. LET'S SEE.

AND THEN OF COURSE, THE AGENDA PACKETS GET EMAILED OUT WHEN THEIR DRAFTS WHEN THEIR FINALS.

AND AGAIN, ANY AMENDED AGENDA THAT WE DO.

YOU GET AN EMAIL.

THERE'S AN EMAIL RECIPIENT LIST THAT GETS EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME EMAIL.

AND THEN THERE'S A LINK THAT'S ADDED TO THE WEBSITE CALENDAR ITEM THAT YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE AGENDA THROUGH.

OKAY. BILL ANY COMMENTS? YEAH. JUST IN TERMS OF IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE ON THE AGENDA, YOU HEARD DONNA SAY 11 DAYS BEFORE, I KIND OF JUST SAY THAT THE WEDNESDAY OF COMMISSION WEEK, BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN STAFF GETS IT TO ME.

STAFF IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN A DRAFT FORM BY THAT POINT.

BUT IF YOU CAN TALK TO ME PRIOR TO WEDNESDAY OF A COMMISSION MEETING, I CAN BE EDUCATED AND PERHAPS EDUCATE YOU IF THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION THAT WILL BE NEEDED BEFORE WE CAN PUT IT ON THE AGENDA.

AND THAT WILL GIVE YOU A WEEK IF THERE IS SOMETHING ADDITIONAL THAT I CAN'T PROVIDE TO GET IT TO US SO THAT IT GOES OUT.

IT MAY NOT GO ON THE DRAFT, BUT IT CAN GO OUT ON THE FINAL.

BUT I JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO.

THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT ON THE AGENDA.

GET TO ME AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE.

OKAY. NEXT ITEM 1.D INVOCATION.

[1.D. Invocation]

SCHEDULE WAS PREPARED, AND IT'S ON PAGE 123 OF YOUR ORIENTATION PACKET.

AND WE SEND YOU A CALENDAR INVITE FOR THAT AS WELL.

YOU'RE ON A ROTATION.

WE'VE ASKED YOU ALREADY IF YOU WANT TO BE ON ROTATION.

EVERYONE'S ON THE ROTATION.

WE WILL HAVE THE SCHEDULE RIGHT HERE AT THE DAIS SO EVERYBODY CAN CHECK IT EACH TIME WE SEND A CALENDAR INVITE FOR THAT TO WHOEVER WAS ASSIGNED TO THAT MEETING.

AND IF YOU WANT TO BRING IN SOMEONE TO DO THAT INVOCATION ON YOUR BEHALF.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

BECAUSE THEN WHAT I DO IS I PUT IT ON THE MAYOR'S GUIDE OR THE AGENDA GUIDE THAT GETS PASSED OUT TO EVERYONE, AND HE'LL KNOW TO CALL ON THAT PERSON AND RECOGNIZE THEM. THAT'S ALL I HAVE ABOUT THAT.

AND JUST QUICKLY, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS DO IT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY.

THE MAIN THREE I'VE SEEN ARE YOU HAVE A DESIGNATED CHAPLAIN.

SOME JURISDICTIONS DO THAT.

OTHERS OPEN IT TO ROTATING MINISTERS OR PRIESTS, AND THEN OTHERS LIKE US, ROTATE THE ACTUAL MEMBERS OF THE BODY.

AND OF COURSE, ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS CAN DO IT.

OR AS DONNA POINTED OUT, YOU CAN HAVE SOMEONE DOING IT.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS SO LONG AS YOU'RE DOING IT ON BEHALF OF AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY, WHICH IS THIS COMMISSION, ESSENTIALLY AN INTERNAL ACT.

AND THE CHOSEN METHOD DOESN'T SEEK TO DISPARAGE OR PROSELYTIZE OR ADVANCE ONE RELIGION OR ANOTHER.

ABSENT A PATTERN LIKE THAT, IT'S PERFECTLY FINE AND CONSTITUTIONAL TO DO SO.

AND THAT'S WHY WE DO IT AT THE BEGINNING.

TYPICALLY, BEFORE YOU GAVEL THE MEETING, IT'S ESSENTIALLY FOR THE SOLEMNITY OF THE MEETING ITSELF.

AND AS FOR THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S FOR THE IT'S FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE BODY.

OF COURSE, ANYONE WHO'S IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WANTS TO PARTAKE IS WELCOME TO DO SO OR NOT.

SO, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.

COMMISSIONER PROCEDURAL QUESTION.

ONE OF MY DATES IS ON INDIGENOUS PEOPLES DAY, FORMERLY KNOWN AS COLUMBUS DAY.

IS THAT GOING TO BE A REGULAR MEETING FOR US?

[00:25:04]

THAT'S A MEETING THAT WE DON'T HAVE COLUMBUS DAY.

OKAY, FINE. JUST CHECKING.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THAT.

WELL, IT'S FEDERAL, YOU KNOW, SO.

YOU DON'T GET AN INTERPRETIVE INDIGENOUS PERSON TO COME AND DO AN INTERPRETIVE DANCE FOR THAT DAY.

ALRIGHTY. LET'S SEE WHAT ELSE.

THAT'S IT ON ITEM 1.D.

OKAY. ONE E MEETING RULES.

[1.E. Meeting Rules]

THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.

SO THE ATLANTIC BEACH ORDINANCE CODE 219, THE RULES AND PROCEDURES FOR MEETINGS AND TALKING WITH THE MAYOR, THERE APPEARS TO BE TWO AREAS WHERE WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE SOME CHANGES DEPENDING UPON THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION.

THE FIRST IS IN TERMS OF CONDUCT.

WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS WHERE WE'VE HAD CITIZENS COME FORTH AND EITHER BASH INDIVIDUAL COMMISSIONERS OR BASH INDIVIDUAL CITY EMPLOYEES. SO I GUESS THERE IS AN INTEREST IN HAVING SOME FORM OF CONDUCT SO THAT A COMMISSIONER CAN ISSUE A POINT OF ORDER AND TRY TO SHUT DOWN INAPPROPRIATE CONDUCT.

SO, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE COMMISSION FEELS ABOUT THAT.

WE'RE NOT ASKING TO CRAFT SOMETHING TONIGHT, JUST IN GENERAL HAVE THAT CONSENSUS, AND THEN STAFF CAN TRY TO CRAFT SOMETHING AND BRING IT BACK.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF MAYOR IF YOU HAD ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON THAT ONE.

WELL, CERTAINLY FROM MY CHAIR.

I'M GOING TO WORK VERY HARD THIS YEAR TO RECOGNIZE WHEN THAT'S OCCURRING QUICKER, BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT'S ALREADY ALMOST OVER BY THE TIME I'M RECOGNIZING IT, BUT I WILL GAVEL IF SOMEBODY IS USING THE NAME OF A STAFF EMPLOYEE OR THE NAME OF A COMMISSIONER, I WILL GAVEL THEM AND LET THEM KNOW THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE.

IF THEY DO IT A SECOND TIME, I'LL GIVE THEM A SECOND WARNING.

THE THIRD TIME, I'LL ASK THEM TO SIT DOWN.

DOES THAT SOUND REASONABLE? OKAY, SO THAT'S ONE THING, BUT WHAT I WON'T DO IS IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THEIR UNHAPPINESS WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN THE CITY WITHOUT USING NAMES, I WILL LET THEM SPEAK.

OR IF THEY HAVE AN ISSUE WITH CITY PROCESSES, I WILL LET THEM SPEAK.

SO IT'S ONLY WHEN THEY START USING AN INDIVIDUAL'S NAME.

AND I'LL TRY VERY HARD TO GAVEL AS SOON AS I HEAR THEM USE SOMEBODY'S NAME.

COMMISSIONER TWO STRIKES AND NOT THREE.

AN ADULT SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT AFTER THE FIRST TIME.

YEAH, I'LL TAKE A CONSENSUS ON THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S ONLY FIVE MINUTES.

HOW HARD CAN IT BE? I THINK A22 STRIKES.

BUT ALSO, CAN'T WE JUST MUTE THE MIC AFTER THE SECOND TIME? RIGHT. THE MIC JUST SHUTS DOWN.

DO YOU HAVE THAT CAPABILITY? NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

YEAH. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THAT.

YOU DON'T HAVE THAT. YOU CAN'T PULL THE PLUG.

BUT THE PROBLEM THERE IS, IF YOU WATCH THESE, THEY GO INTO SUCCESSION FAST.

YEAH. RIGHT. RIGHT.

THEY COME OUT BY THE TIME THAT 15 SECONDS IS GONE.

THEY'VE GONE ON AND ON, YOU KNOW.

OR IF YOU PLAY TENNIS.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE IN A, YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE ON.

SO, YOU KNOW I THINK THE CHAIR WE LEAVE IT TO THE CHAIR AND LET HIM BANG THE GAVEL WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE.

YOU KNOW, IF WE COUNTED THREE STRIKES, WE COULD BE HERE FOR A WHILE.

NO, BUT I SOMETIMES PEOPLE GET PASSIONATE AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY INTENDING TO DISPARAGE.

SO, UNLESS YOU TELL ME SPECIFICALLY, I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO GAVEL ONCE, AND THEN I'M GOING TO WARN THEM A SECOND TIME THAT I WILL ASK THEM TO SIT DOWN IF IT OCCURS AGAIN.

SO THAT'S A THAT'S A START.

WE CAN ALWAYS REVISIT IT IF WE DON'T THINK THAT'S SUFFICIENT.

QUITE FRANKLY, THAT'S MORE THAN I HAVE DONE.

AND SO IT'S A STRONG STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

MOST OF THEM ARE READING OFF THEIR EMAIL, SO WE COULD ZAP THEM.

OKAY. SO THAT'S ONE THING.

THE OTHER THING. YEAH. SO THE OTHER THING THAT THE MAYOR AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT, WHICH IS IT'S KIND OF TO FACILITATE THE MEETING IS TO UTILIZE THE PRO TEM AS A FLOOR LEADER.

A LOT OF COMMUNITIES DO IT IN WHICH AND THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT WAYS IT COULD BE DONE.

THE MAYOR COULD READ THE BILL, AND THE PRO TEM COULD AUTOMATICALLY MAKE THEIR MOTION.

DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE AGREES WITH THE BILL.

IT JUST MEANS THAT HE MAKES THE MOTION, GETS IT SET UP ON THE FLOOR FOR DEBATE PROPERLY OR THE PRO TEM CAN READ THE BILL AND THEN MAKE THE

[00:30:09]

SO IF NOBODY SECONDS IT, SOMEBODY COULD AMEND THE MOTION TO DENY OR TO DO WHATEVER WOULD MAKE IT MORE APPEALABLE, BUT IT JUST PUTS US IN THE PROPER POSTURE FROM THE GET GO.

AND IT AND IT ELIMINATES THAT SOMETIMES AWKWARD PAUSE WHERE EVERYBODY'S LOOKING AT EACH OTHER TO MAKE THAT FIRST STEP.

ONCE THE FIRST STEP IS DONE.

IT SEEMS TO MOVE PRETTY WELL, BUT SOMETIMES THAT FIRST STEP IS MORE OF A CHALLENGE.

SO THERE WAS A THOUGHT ON DOING THAT THAT WILL REQUIRE A CODE CHANGE TO THE RULES, BECAUSE THE RULES REGARDING THE PRO TEM IS VERY SHORT AND SWEET.

IF THE MAYOR IS NOT HERE, HE ACTS IN THE PLACE OF THE MAYOR.

SO, MY REQUEST IS THAT WE IN FACT DO THAT AND DESIGNATE PRO TEM IN THIS CASE, COMMISSIONER BOLE TO READ THE ORDINANCE.

THE ONLY QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT HIM TO ALSO MOVE THE ORDINANCE.

WHAT? MY QUESTION.

SO I READ THE ORDINANCE.

I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO THAT.

WHAT IF I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT ORDINANCE? YOU CAN STILL MOVE THE ORDINANCE AND GET A SECOND.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO VOTE ON IT.

I MEAN, YOU CAN VOTE. OKAY, SO I CAN VOTE AGAINST THE.

YES. OKAY. SO YOU CAN VOTE AGAINST IT.

IT JUST PUTS IT IN THE PROPER.

YEAH, I THINK I THINK IT WOULD SLIM DOWN THE PROCESS.

RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.

SO IT ALLOWS YOU TO VOTE AGAINST YOUR OWN MOTION? NO. YOU COULD SET IT.

IN FACT, THAT KIND OF FOLLOWS JACKSONVILLE'S MODEL.

THE FLOOR LEADER, IN THIS CASE, THE PRO TEM MOVES IT, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO VOTE FOR IT.

THEY CAN VOTE AGAINST IT. BUT I THINK TO BILL'S POINT DEPENDING ON THE ISSUE, IT MAY BE THAT AT SOME POINT AFTER DISCUSSION, WHEN IT'S BEEN OPENED UP AND MOVED AND SECONDED, THAT YOU MAY WANT TO IF IT'S LOOKING LIKE A, YOU KNOW, A DENIAL, YOU MAY WANT TO AMEND THE MOTION TO MAKE IT A DENIAL.

BUT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH VOTING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE AND EVERYONE VOTING AGAINST IT.

YOU COULD VOTE, YOU KNOW EVERYONE IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING, AND ALL FIVE VOTE AGAINST IT.

AND THAT'S A DENIAL, BASICALLY.

RIGHT. BUT IF THERE'S LIKE A DEAD SILENCE, THEN THAT SORT OF INDICATES THAT NOBODY LIKES IT.

AND THEN IF YOU NOW YOU'RE FORCED OUR HAND AND REQUIRED US TO TO ACT ON IT WHEN NOBODY REALLY WANTED TO.

YEAH. I MEAN, FOR QUASI-JUDICIAL ITEMS, YOU SPECIFICALLY HAVE TO TAKE AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT REGULAR BILLS.

DO YOU HAVE TO? WELL, AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, YOU CAN TAKE.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO TAKE AN ACT.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE AN ACTION.

IT'S OKAY IF YOU TAKE AN ACTION TO DENY SOMETHING.

RIGHT. VERSUS YOU TAKE AN ACTION TO APPROVE, BUT EVERYONE ENDS UP VOTING AGAINST IT.

DONNA, I THINK IF YOU MAKE A MOTION OR SECOND, YOU CAN'T SPEAK AGAINST IT DURING THE DISCUSSION OR THE DEBATE.

I THINK YOU CAN VOTE AGAINST IT, BUT I DIDN'T THINK YOU'RE ALLOWED TO SPEAK AGAINST IT.

SAYS WHO? WHAT THE? I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT COMMISSIONER KELLY.

SHE PROBABLY REMEMBERED READING SOMETHING ABOUT.

WELL, AND IF THAT'S A CONCERN, WE COULD SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZE IT IN THE RULE.

YEAH. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S IN THE CODE RIGHT NOW, SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT COMES.

MAYBE IT IS IN ROBERTS.

ROBERTS. WELL, THEN YOU CAN WRITE AGAINST IT.

THEN YOU CAN WRITE A DIFFERENT RULE.

IF YOU LEAVE IT OPEN TO ROBERT'S RULES, THEN WHATEVER ROBERT'S RULES SAYS WILL APPLY.

SO IF THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS, THEN IT WOULD APPLY RIGHT NOW.

SAY WE FOLLOW ROBERT'S RULES, EXCEPT THERE'S A GAP EXCEPT FOR WHERE THE CODE.

RIGHT. OTHERWISE.

SO IF THIS IF YOU WANTED TO ALLOW THIS, WE WOULD WRITE THE CODE SPECIFICALLY SO THAT THE PRO TEM COULD VOTE AGAINST IT AND SPEAK AGAINST IT.

IT'S SIMPLY A MECHANISM TO GET THE BILL ON THE FLOOR IN THE PROPER POSTURE.

SO TO KIND OF RECAP, THIS MAYOR PRO TEM WOULD ACTUALLY READ AND MOVE ON BOTH ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS. CORRECT.

OKAY. AND SO, IN THE PAST, WE'VE HAD THE MOVEMENT OF A BILL, FOR EXAMPLE, ON A RESOLUTION, OFTENTIMES AFTER WE'VE HEARD FROM THE CITY MANAGER AND THE RECOMMENDATION OF STAFF.

SO WHAT WE'LL BE DOING IS WE'LL BE CHANGING IT TO WHERE EVERYTHING IS MOVED BEFORE WE HEAR FROM ANYONE.

THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. IF YOU DID THAT.

YES, COMMISSIONER. IN OUR COMMISSION, THE MAYOR HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE FACILITATOR OF THE MEETINGS.

THE CHAIR OF THE MEETING.

AND YOU READ THE ORDINANCES AND THE RESOLUTIONS OUT LOUD.

SO NOW, IN ESSENCE, YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT ANYMORE.

SO YOU WILL SIT BACK AND THEN I'LL CHILL OVER HERE.

SO THE MAYOR PRO TEM WOULD BE DOING THAT.

[00:35:02]

SO HE'S MOVING THE MOTION READING THEM AND MOVING THEM.

YEAH. AND THEN THE SECOND GOES UP TO DOES THAT CHANGE.

CAN YOU NOW SECOND, I OH THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I WOULD STILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE TO SECOND ANY MOTION.

WE COULD WRITE THE RULE THAT YOU COULD.

DO WE WANT TO, BUT I DON'T WANT TO SECOND SOMETHING UNTIL I KNOW WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT.

DON'T WE HAVE TO HAVE A SECOND? ACCORDING TO ROBERT'S RULES, IN ORDER TO HAVE A DISCUSSION? AND THAT IS SOMETHING WE DO A LOT HERE THAT BREAKS ROBERT'S RULES.

I DON'T. WELL, ACTUALLY, IT COULD BE SO.

SO I WE GET TO I LIKE A LOT UNDER TYPICALLY YOU CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG UNDER TYPICAL ROBERT'S RULES YOU WOULD SECOND THAT YOU WOULD MOVE AND SECOND A MOTION BEFORE YOU WOULD OPEN DISCUSSION.

THE EXCEPTION THAT I'VE NOTED IN THIS CHAMBER IS THAT WHEN WE ARE LOOKING FOR STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND INFORMATION, WE TYPICALLY WILL GO TO CITY MANAGER KILLINGSWORTH BEFORE WE ACTUALLY MOVE.

AND SECOND, THE MOTION.

YEAH. I MEAN, LET'S BE CLEAR THAT THIS EVEN THIS CHANGE WOULD BE PURELY PROCEDURAL TO GET IT IN THE RIGHT POSTURE FOR DISCUSSION.

IT WOULD BE READING THE ORDINANCE.

I SUPPOSE IT WOULD BE PRECEDED BY THE STAFF REPORT BILL.

THE ORDINANCE IS READ, IT'S MOVED, AND THEN SOMEONE CAN WISH TO SECOND IT.

IF NO ONE SECONDS IT, IT DIES.

BUT IF SOMEONE SECONDS IT, THEN WE GET INTO A DISCUSSION QUESTION, ANSWER ALL THE ABOVE AND THEN WHEN EVERYONE'S COMFORTABLE, YOU EITHER VOTE ON IT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE OR NOT. DOES.

I WAS ASKING A QUESTION.

OH, DOES HE HAVE TO READ? DOES THE MAYOR PRO TEM HAVE TO READ THE AMENDED MOTIONS.

SO IF HE'S READING ONE AND YOU KNOW IT GETS DENIED, DOES HE HAVE TO READ NOW THE AMENDED, CAN ANY OF US DO THAT? NO. SO ONCE THE ONCE THE BILL RESOLUTION IS MOVED AND SECONDED ON THE FLOOR, ANY COMMISSIONER CAN MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO IT.

AT THAT POINT, THE FLOOR LEADER'S RESPONSIBILITY IS DONE.

SO THEN IT JUST PROCEEDS, RELINQUISHED IT TO THE FLOOR.

NOW IT'S RELINQUISHED TO THE FLOOR.

SO WHOEVER HAS THE FLOOR CAN MAKE A MOTION TO AMEND.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ONLY FIVE OF US.

I DON'T KNOW HOW FORMAL WE OUGHT TO BE FOR THAT, BUT I CAN SEE WHERE THE WHERE THE CITY COUNCIL OF 19 PEOPLE, BUT WITH FIVE PEOPLE.

WELL, THE.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU, COMMISSIONER, EXCEPT ONE THING IS, I WORK BEST BASED ON CONSISTENCY.

SO IF WE'RE DOING IT THE SAME WAY EVERY TIME WE GET INTO A RHYTHM.

WHEN WE GET OUT OF RHYTHM, WE GET KIND OF TRIPPED UP.

SO. AND IS THE PURPOSE OF DOING THIS AND CHANGING THE MAYOR PRO TEM DUTIES IS TO CLEAN UP ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER.

NO, NO, NO. OKAY.

IT'S JUST I ASKED CITY MANAGER KILLINGSWORTH, AND THEN HE SPOKE TO MR. GABRIEL. IF I COULD RELINQUISH THAT DUTY BECAUSE I'M.

I'M DOING ALL OF THE TALKING AS WE GO THROUGH THE AGENDA.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO OFFLOAD THAT TO MAYOR PRO TEM AND THEN DO THE REST OF MY JOB, I SEE.

OKAY, I THINK THE INTENT IS JUST TO PROVIDE MORE STRUCTURE.

SO. SO WHY DON'T WE WRITE IT OUT? LET US TAKE A LOOK AT IT.

YOU KNOW, TEST DRIVE IT, YOU KNOW, AND THEN GO FORWARD OKAY.

THAT WORKS GREAT WITH, YOU KNOW, FIX THE SEWER.

BUT OTHER STUFF REALLY NEEDS MORE DISCUSSION.

WELL, NO, WE'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION.

WELL, I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T LIKE PUTTING IT IN MY OPINION, IS I DON'T LIKE PUTTING A SECOND YEAR OUT THERE BEFORE I EVEN REALLY HEAR WHAT THE WHOLE THING IS.

SO I'M WILLING TO TRY IT.

JUST DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT TODAY.

PUT IT OUT THERE. SOMETIMES WE PUT IT OUT THERE, HAVE NO, SOMETIMES WE HAVE DISCUSSION.

I READ THE ORDINANCE, BUT NOBODY MOVES IT.

AND THEN WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION AND THEN SOMEBODY MOVES AND SECONDS IT.

AND THEN SOMETIMES SOMEBODY, I READ IT, AND SOMEBODY MOVES IT AND SECONDS IT, AND THEN WE HAVE DISCUSSION.

BUT TO GET THE BIG BUCKS.

BUT TO COMMISSIONER GRANT'S POINT, THOUGH, IT IS CORRECT, LIKE THE PROPER ORDER WOULD BE TO MOVE SECOND AND THEN HAVE A DISCUSSION THAT WOULD BE THE PROPER WAY TO DO IT.

AND THAT'S WHY I'M TRYING TO GET BACK TO FOLLOWING ROBERT'S RULES.

BUT. BUT I HEAR YOU, COMMISSIONER.

I THINK IT'S JUST A MATTER OF GETTING USED TO THE FACT THAT WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE DISCUSSION, AND WE COULD ALL BE A NAY VOTE ON SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED AND RECOMMENDED.

BUT THEN JUST TO CLARIFY THIS BEFORE WE MOVE ON.

AT WHAT POINT WOULD WE READ THE STAFF REPORT?

[00:40:01]

WE COULD HAVE THE PRO TEM READ THE STAFF REPORT, AND THEN WE'LL LOOK AT HOW TO CRAFT THAT IN THE ORDINANCE.

OKAY. SO I THINK WE HEARD WE'LL BRING THIS BACK FOR A TRIAL RUN.

YEAH. WE'LL CRAFT OUT SOME RECOMMENDED CHANGES TO CAPTURE WHAT? I THINK THE CONSENSUS WAS HERE.

IT WOULD BE AN ORDINANCE CHANGE.

SO, YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT IT BEFORE WE ACTUALLY FILE IT.

AND THEN IF THERE'S AGREEMENT ON WHAT TO FILE, WE'LL FILE IT AND THEN GO FORTH.

SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THREE CYCLES BEFORE IT WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED IF IT WAS VOTED ON.

PERFECT. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE WORKED THAT OVER.

SO, I'LL MOVE. ONE COMMENT.

IF WE'RE COVERING RULES OF CONDUCT AND PROCEDURE OF MEETINGS, I KNOW I'M GUILTY OF THIS.

SO, I'LL SAY THAT RIGHT UP FRONT.

THE PERSON THAT HAS THE FLOOR IS THE SPEAKER, UNLESS IT'S DESIGNATED RIGHT FROM THE CHAIR.

I KNOW I TALKED TO BILL ABOUT THE LIGHTS, A LOT OF CITY COMMISSIONS.

YOU PUSH THE LIGHT, IT SHOWS UP GREEN.

AND I THINK THAT SOMETIMES WE GET OUT OF THAT BOX AND WE TALK DIRECTLY, EITHER TO SHORT COMMENT OR A SENTENCE WHERE I THINK THAT THE ONE THAT HAS THE FLOOR AND AGAIN, I'VE BEEN GUILTY OF THIS IS THE SPEAKER, NOT THE REST OF US.

YEAH. THANKS FOR MENTIONING THAT.

I ACTUALLY HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH BILL EARLIER.

IF WE REALLY WANTED TO GET FORMAL, YOU WOULD SPEAK THROUGH THE THE CHAIR IN THIS CASE, THE MAYOR, AND WE'RE NOT USING THAT LANGUAGE.

BUT I THINK WE DO NEED TO, AT LEAST AT THE VERY BASICS, RAISE OUR HAND OR GIVE AN AUDIBLE.

EITHER ONE AND BE RECOGNIZED.

AND FORGIVE ME, BUT IT MAY BE THAT I DON'T RECOGNIZE SOMEBODY, WHICH MEANS YOU DON'T HAVE THE FLOOR.

SO UNLESS YOU'RE RECOGNIZED, YOU DON'T PROCEED TO SPEAK.

YES. SO I THINK BY HAVING THE PRO TEM READ AND MOVE THE BILLS, THAT ALLOWS THE CHAIR TO FOCUS ON MANAGING THE MEETING.

AND RECOGNIZING I WAS TALKING ABOUT ANYTIME, ANYTIME.

NO, I MEAN, AT ANY TIME, BECAUSE HE'S RIGHT.

I CAN IMAGINE THAT.

BECAUSE I DO IT HERE SOMETIMES I'M READING THE NEXT ITEM WHILE DISCUSSIONS GOING ON SO I CAN PREP UP FOR IT.

THAT'S JUST A POINT I DIDN'T CHANGE OR ANYTHING.

GOOD. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S MOVE TO ITEM ONE F PROCESS FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS COURTESY OF THE FLOOR.

[1.F. Process for Public Comments]

DONNA OR JASON? JUST REAL QUICK.

THE PAGE NINE HAS SOME INFORMATION ABOUT PUBLIC INPUT, WHICH COULD BE ANYWHERE FROM COURTESY OF THE FLOOR AND TO PUBLIC HEARINGS. WE TOUCHED ON PUBLIC HEARINGS A LITTLE BIT AS FAR AS ORDINANCES GO, BUT YOU CAN ALSO HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR THE QUASI JUDICIAL MEETINGS.

YOU KNOW, WE APPEALS SOME WAIVERS MAY HAVE PUBLIC HEARING PORTIONS.

BUT ANYWAY, IN, IN A LOT OF CASES, THE CITIZENS HAVE TWO OPPORTUNITIES TO SPEAK IF THERE'S A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE AGENDA.

YEP. SPEAKER FORMS ARE ENCOURAGED.

IT ALLOWS US TO CALL THEIR NAMES OUT, HAVE RECORD OF THEIR NAME.

AND IT PROVIDES INFORMATION FOR FOLLOWING UP WITH THE CITIZENS.

SO THAT'S WHY WE SCAN THEM AFTER THE MEETINGS AND WE SEND THEM TO YOU IN AN EMAIL WITHIN A FEW DAYS OF THE MEETING.

I MAKE A COMMENT THERE. YES, YES.

IT'S ALSO THE ADDRESS ISSUE THAT WE RAN INTO.

I KNOW I TALKED TO BILL ABOUT THIS AND I KNOW THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU KNOW SOMEBODY ADDRESSES IN ATLANTIC BEACH, FOR ME, THAT MAY CARRY MORE WEIGHT THAN IF YOU LIVE IN PALM BEACH OR ETCETERA.

SO WHEN THEY COME TO SPEAK, I LIVE ON 17TH STREET.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S THAT MEANS MORE TO ME.

I KNOW IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT BY LAW, RIGHT? I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT WE CAN STILL ASK.

AM I CORRECT? YEAH.

YEAH. OKAY. BECAUSE RELEVANT TO THE.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CITY FACILITIES AND YET YOU DON'T PAY CITY TAXES AND YOU DON'T LIVE IN CITY, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO I'D LIKE TO KNOW THAT.

SO I'LL MAKE SURE I STATE THAT IN THE RULES WHEN WE START COURTESY OF THE COURT.

OKAY. THAT YOU WOULD LIKE THEIR ADDRESS? YES. PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

AND IF THEY OBJECT, I WON'T OBJECT TO THEIR OBJECTION.

HOW'S THAT? THERE WAS A REASON WHY I PUT ON THERE THAT IT'S OPTIONAL.

I THOUGHT IT WAS BECAUSE WE COULDN'T REQUIRE THEM TO TELL YOU.

WE CAN'T REQUIRE.

WE CAN ASK. YOU CAN'T RECALL.

I MEAN, YOU CAN ASK.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

IT'S NOT A MANDATED REQUIREMENT.

AND TO COMMISSIONER BOWLES POINT, IF THEY DON'T GIVE IT, THEN THAT'S MAYBE TO THEIR OWN DETRIMENT.

OKAY. GOTCHA.

YES, COMMISSIONER. I THINK YOU OUGHT TO GO AHEAD AND PUT IN.

[00:45:03]

OKAY. BECAUSE WE REPRESENT ALL THE CITIZENS, WHETHER THEY LIVED HERE 20 YEARS, TWO MONTHS.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

WHAT ELSE? ON PUBLIC COMMENTS.

UNLESS JASON HAS ANY MORE.

NO. JUST THAT THE LAW IS THAT CITIZENRY HAS TO HAVE A REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD BEFORE A PROPOSITION IS IS APPROVED.

AND AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED.

THERE ARE CERTAIN PUBLIC HEARINGS, QUASI JUDICIAL BEING THE BIGGEST ONE, WHERE THERE'S AN ACTUAL REQUIREMENT FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.

WE USUALLY GO TO THE THROUGH THE MORE FORMAL PROTOCOLS FOR THAT WHEN THOSE ITEMS COME UP.

BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION ITSELF IS REALLY MORE OF A CATCH ALL FOR GENERAL COMMENTARY OF THE PUBLIC.

THE KEY THERE IS JUST LET'S WE WE APPLY THE SAME RULES, TIME, MANNER AND METHOD TO ALL OF THEM.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU GIVE ONE PERSON TWO MINUTES, LET'S GIVE EVERYONE TWO MINUTES.

IF YOU GIVE ONE PERSON FIVE MINUTES, GIVE EVERYONE FIVE MINUTES.

THAT'S ALL JUST, YOU KNOW, RULES OF FAIR PLAY.

YEP. OKAY.

IF WE'RE GOOD WITH ITEM ONE F, WE'LL MOVE TO ITEM ONE G USE OF CITY EMAIL.

[1.G. Use of City Email]

MOST OF THE EMAILS THAT YOU'LL RECEIVE ARE PUBLIC RECORD.

SO THAT'S WHY WE URGE YOU TO USE OURS.

IF YOU DO HAVE AN EMAIL THAT YOU'RE SENT THAT'S SENT TO YOU IN YOUR, YOUR PRIVATE EMAIL AND IT'S CITY BUSINESS, AND IT DOES NOT HAVE SOMEONE ELSE IN THE EMAIL THAT HAS A CO, US ADDRESS.

MAKE SURE YOU FORWARD THAT ADDRESS TO SOMEONE IN THE CO AB SYSTEM, MYSELF OR CITY MANAGER.

AND THAT PUTS IT INTO OUR ARCHIVER.

AND ONCE IT'S IN THE ARCHIVES, THERE'S NO REASON FOR US TO RETAIN THAT BECAUSE IT'S ARCHIVED, CORRECT? YOU CAN DELETE ANYTHING OUT OF YOUR INBOXES THAT ARE IN YOUR CO AB US.

IT'S JUST YOUR YOUR PRIVATE ONE'S YOUR PERSONAL EMAILS THAT YOU NEED TO HOLD ON TO UNTIL YOU SEND THEM OVER TO A CO AB US EMAIL. YOU CAN EVEN SEND THEM TO YOUR CITY EMAIL AND IT'LL MAKE IT IN THERE.

RIGHT. THAT'S SO MY PRACTICE IS YOU KNOW, I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW MY PERSONAL EMAIL AND PHONE NUMBER TEXT, AND SO THEY SEND ME CITY RELATED WORK ON IT SOMETIMES, WHICH IS A PUBLIC RECORD.

SO MY PRACTICE IS TO FORWARD THAT TO MY EMAIL ADDRESS HERE AT THE CITY.

IT GETS ARCHIVED AND QUITE FRANKLY, HOPEFULLY SHOULD I GET SUED ON SOMETHING, I CAN DEMONSTRATE TO THE JUDGE THAT MY PRACTICE IS TO SEND ALL CITY WORK TO THE COVE ADDRESS, AND THAT PHONE WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED A PUBLIC RECORD.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE JUDGE WILL AGREE.

BUT I'M HOPING THAT PRACTICE WILL HELP WITH THAT.

OKAY. AND THEN WE HAVE AN EMAIL ADDRESS SET UP THAT'S ELECTED OFFICIALS AT COVE US.

ALL FIVE OF YOU ARE IN THAT AS WELL AS THE CITY MANAGER AND DEPUTY CITY MANAGER.

SO THAT EMAIL IS USED FOR A CATCHALL.

IF A CITIZEN WANTED TO GO AHEAD AND TELL ALL OF YOU THE SAME THING, THEN THEY COULD JUST DO IT IN ONE SWOOP.

AND I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

JUMP ON THAT. SO WHEN I USE THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, I ALWAYS USE A BLIND COPY THAT PREVENTS THE COMMISSION FROM INADVERTENTLY CREATING A SUNSHINE ISSUE.

BUT WHEN CITIZENS DO IT, THEY TYPICALLY JUST DO TWO ELECTED OFFICIALS.

SO BE CONSCIOUS OF NOT RESPONDING TO SOMETHING THAT HAS ALL THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS ON IT.

YEP. OKAY.

THANK YOU. ITEM ONE H.

[1.H. Communication]

KEVIN HOGENCAMP, DEPUTY CITY MANAGER.

I'LL CONSIDERING THE HOUR, I'LL ABBREVIATE MY PRESENTATIONS ON ITEM ONE H COMMUNICATION.

THE CITY'S COMMUNICATIONS PLATFORMS INCLUDE NEWS RELEASES, MEDIA RELATIONS, AND OUR WEBSITE, WHICH WILL UNDERGO A SIGNIFICANT OVERHAUL THIS YEAR.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN FIVE YEARS, WE ALSO LEVERAGE OUR EMAIL NEWSLETTER, OUR MONTHLY UTILITY BILL NEWSLETTER, AND OUR RECREATION E-NEWSLETTER.

OUR SOCIAL MEDIA PRESENCE SPANS FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, NEXTDOOR, AND VARIOUS COMMUNICATIONS COMMUNITY PAGES.

WE ENCOURAGE THE CITY COMMISSION MEMBERS TO HELP US GET THE WORD OUT BY SHARING OUR POSTS, AND BY PROVIDING YOUR CONSTITUENT EMAIL ADDRESSES TO US SO THAT WE CAN ADD THEM TO THE CITY SUBSCRIPTION LISTS.

[00:50:03]

I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS TONIGHT OR ALONG THE WAY, AS IS.

BILL IS AVAILABLE FOR THAT PURPOSE.

THAT'S ALL IN ONE ON ON ONE H.

OKAY. WITH YOUR PERMISSION AND WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE COMMISSIONERS, WE'RE GOING TO SKIP ITEM ONE I.

WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AT A LATER DATE.

NO OBJECTION. HEARD.

WE'LL MOVE TO ITEM ONE.

[1.J. Training]

SURE. AND I'LL TRY TO KEEP THIS PRETTY BRIEF AND SUCCINCT.

DONNA, DO WE HAVE THE SLIDES THAT I PROVIDED EARLIER? YES. AND WHAT I'LL DO, I HAVE A HARD COPY, IF THAT HELPS EVERYONE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WELL YOU CAN SEE IT THERE, BUT LET ME GO TO THIS WAY AND THIS WILL BE.

WE CAN PUT THIS ON THE WEBSITE TO INCLUDE IT IN THE MATERIALS SO THAT EVERYONE HAVE ONE.

YEAH. THANKS, DONNA.

I PRINTED MY OWN. THANK YOU.

OKAY. DONNA, CAN YOU GO TO THE.

ARE YOU CONTROLLING THE.

YES, SURE. NEXT SLIDE.

OH, SORRY.

YEAH. WE'LL GO PRETTY QUICK.

THOSE ARE JUST SOME GREAT QUOTES.

BASICALLY. IN SUMMARY, GOOD HABITS, WHEN DONE IN REPETITION, INEVITABLY LEAD TO WELL EXECUTED ACTIONS.

YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. WE'RE GOING TO COVER BRIEFLY TWO CHAPTERS OF THE FLORIDA STATUTES.

ONE IS 119, WHICH IS THE PUBLIC RECORDS OR OPEN RECORDS LAWS, AND THE OTHER IS 286, WHICH IS THE OPEN MEETING LAWS, THE SUNSHINE LAWS, ESSENTIALLY ON HOW WE MEET COLLEGIALLY. NEXT SLIDE.

SO AS YOU CAN SEE HERE ESSENTIALLY SINCE 1909, THE LAW WE'RE GOING TO START WITH PUBLIC RECORDS.

THE LAW ON PUBLIC RECORDS HAS GROWN INTO A SIZABLE CHAPTER 119 OF THE FLORIDA STATUTES.

IN 1992, THE CONSTITUTION WAS AMENDED TO PROVIDE A CONSTITUTIONAL GUARANTEE AS TO THE OPENNESS OF PUBLIC RECORDS.

SO IT'S ENSHRINED IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

WE'VE GOT A STATUTE THAT THAT SETS FORTH ALL THE RULES.

IT'S VERY PRESCRIBED.

IT EVEN HAS EXACT EXEMPTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT BUT IT'S ENSHRINED IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

FLORIDA HAS BASICALLY ONE OF THE MOST ROBUST, I WOULD SAY, LIBERAL INTERPRETIVE SET OF RULES WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC RECORDS AND FOR THAT MATTER OPEN SUNSHINE MEETING LAWS.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

THE THE LAW APPLIES TO VIRTUALLY EVERY DOCUMENT THAT'S MADE AND RECEIVED PURSUANT TO LAW OR IN CONNECTION WITH OFFICIAL PUBLIC BUSINESS. NOW, ON THE ONE HAND AND AS YOU CAN SEE IN THOSE BULLET POINTS, THOSE ARE THE, THE ESSENTIAL STATUTORY DEFINITIONS, ESSENTIALLY A PUBLIC RECORD IS ANY MATERIAL PREPARED IN CONNECTION WITH OFFICIAL AGENCY BUSINESS, WHICH IS INTENDED TO PERPETUATE, COMMUNICATE OR FORMALIZE KNOWLEDGE.

IF YOU'RE SENDING IT FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONDUCTING BUSINESS OR SOMETHING THAT MIGHT EVENTUALLY END UP IN A RESOLUTION OR ORDINANCE, YOU CAN ASSUME THAT THAT'S A PUBLIC RECORD. NOW, IF IT'S NOT CONNECTED WITH OFFICIAL AGENCY ACTION, THEN IT MAY NOT BE CONSIDERED A PUBLIC RECORD.

BUT YOU HAVE TO ASSUME FOR THE MOST PART THAT WHEN YOU'RE SENDING SOMETHING CITYWIDE WITH SOME CITY ELEMENT TO IT, THAT IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE A PUBLIC RECORD.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

THIS IS A FURTHER DEFINITION IN THE, IN THE FLORIDA STATUTES.

AND ESSENTIALLY WITH AS YOU CAN SEE, YOU CAN READ IT ON YOUR ON YOUR OWN TIME, BUT ESSENTIALLY IT INCLUDES EVERYTHING SOCIAL MEDIA POSTINGS ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER, TEXT MESSAGES IF THEY INVOLVE PUBLIC BUSINESS.

ONCE AGAIN, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS MEDICAL INFORMATION, LAW ENFORCEMENT ADDRESSES, THINGS THAT ARE OF PERSONAL NATURE.

THE KEY, THOUGH, IS THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO CITE AN EXEMPTION TO A PUBLIC RECORD REQUEST, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY POINT ON THE MENU OF EXEMPTIONS THAT ARE IN THE STATUTES TO THE EXEMPTION. OTHERWISE, YOU CAN'T INTERPRET IT OR MAKE IT UP.

JUST A SMALL POINT THERE.

YOUR GOVERNMENT, YOUR CITY PHONE IS A PUBLIC RECORD.

IT IS? YEAH.

AND THAT'S A GOOD POINT BECAUSE THE CITY PHONE, ESSENTIALLY EVERYTHING YOU CONDUCT ON THERE IS ATTRIBUTABLE TO A, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC BUSINESS.

NOW, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU USE YOUR YOUR PUBLIC PHONE FOR A PERSONAL MESSAGE? YES. AND THAT TECHNICALLY WOULDN'T BE A PUBLIC RECORD, BUT I THINK THE DATABASES ARE ALL BACKED UP.

AND YOU SHOULD JUST ASSUME IF IT'S ON A PUBLIC DEVICE, IT'S PUBLIC.

I ONLY MENTION THAT BECAUSE I KNOW A CITY WHERE THAT'S BEEN REQUESTED THAT THE PHONE, THE TEXT MESSAGES, THE PHONE CALLS ON THAT.

SO KEEPING YOUR OWN PHONE AND THE CITY PHONE, I THINK THAT'S A BETTER IT'S A BETTER PRACTICE FOR SURE.

[00:55:05]

AND THAT IS IF YOU HAVE A PERSONAL PHONE, AS BILL WAS MENTIONING EARLIER AND YOU HAPPEN TO AND THIS HAPPENS, IT SLIPS.

THERE'S A CONSTITUENT WHO KNOWS YOUR PERSONAL PHONE AND THEY SEND YOU SOME PUBLIC BUSINESS ON YOUR TEXT MESSAGE.

WELL, THAT'S A PUBLIC RECORD.

AND SO YOU SHOULD THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR YOU TO RETAIN THAT.

AND THE BEST WAY IS TO JUST SEND IT TO YOUR YOUR PUBLIC EMAIL OR PUBLIC PHONE.

COULD YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, DONNA? THIS IS JUST THE CONSEQUENCES OF OF VIOLATING PUBLIC RECORDS LAW AND THE YOU DON'T NEED TO MEMORIZE ANY OF THIS OTHER THAN TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE BOTH CRIMINAL SANCTIONS, AND THAT WOULD BE FOR INTENTIONAL VIOLATIONS OF THE LAW.

AND THERE'S ALSO CIVIL PENALTIES, WHICH IS A MONETARY ONE.

AND AS EVERYONE KNOWS HERE, AND I'VE BEEN INVOLVED TO SOME DEGREE OR ANOTHER OVER THE YEARS IT'S LOW HANGING FRUIT.

AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS REQUIRED TO, TO DIVULGE THESE RECORDS.

AND WHEN THEY DON'T, IF THEY'RE CHALLENGED, MORE LIKELY THAN NOT THEY'RE GOING TO BE PAYING SOME SORT OF PENALTY.

SO THAT'S THE THE POINT THERE.

GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

SO WE'LL TURN BRIEFLY TO OUR OPEN SUNSHINE LAWS ONCE AGAIN IN LIKE MANNER AS THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS IN 1992.

THE STATE CONSTITUTION WAS AMENDED TO PRESERVE THEIR, IN THE CONSTITUTION, GUARANTEE OF THE OPENNESS OF PUBLIC MEETINGS.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. AND THIS SLIDE RIGHT HERE ON PUBLIC MEETINGS IS PROBABLY THE, YOU KNOW, THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE OUT OF ANY OF THE SLIDES ON THIS THING.

AND IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE THREE RULES OF OPEN SUNSHINE OR OPEN PUBLIC MEETING LAWS.

AND THAT IS IT APPLIES TO ALL PUBLICLY NOTICED MEETINGS FOR COLLEGIAL BODIES SUCH AS A COMMISSION, CITY COUNCIL.

IN FLORIDA, THE 67 COUNTIES, WE HAVE A VARIETY OF COMMISSIONS, COUNCILS OR WHATNOT.

THIS APPLIES ACROSS THE BOARD TO ANY COLLEGIALLY SET UP MEETING.

AND ESSENTIALLY THE LAW REQUIRES THAT ALL MEETINGS BE ONE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

THAT MEANS IN AN OPEN, ACCESSIBLE BUILDING, SUCH AS THIS CITY HALL.

IT CAN BE IN LIBRARIES.

IT CAN BE IN OTHER PLACES. BUT THE KEY IS THAT IT HAS TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

IT CAN'T BE AT A RESTAURANT.

WHILE ONE MIGHT THINK A RESTAURANT IS A PUBLIC SETTING, IT HAS A WHAT'S CALLED A CHILLING EFFECT.

BECAUSE UNLESS YOU'RE TOTALLY DERANGED, WHICH I SUPPOSE THAT'S POSSIBLE, NO ONE'S GOING TO SIT AND WATCH PEOPLE FEEDING AND TALKING AT A RESTAURANT.

SO YOU DO IT IN A PLACE AND IN A MANNER THAT'S OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AND ACTUALLY KIND OF IS MORE INVITING FOR THE PUBLIC TO BE THERE.

THE SECOND REQUIREMENT IS THERE NEEDS TO BE REASONABLE NOTICE WHICH MEANS THE LAW.

THERE'S NO BRIGHT LINE, BUT I WOULD PROPOSE THAT AT LEAST CASE LAW SUGGESTS THAT THERE'S A MINIMUM OF 24 HOURS.

TYPICALLY COMMISSIONS, BOARDS AND AGENCIES WILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, LONGER PERIODS OF NOTICE, LIKE 72 HOURS OR 48 HOURS, BUT AT A MINIMUM, YOU'D WANT AT LEAST 24 HOURS, AND YOU'D WANT TO HAVE THAT NOTICE SOMEWHERE WHERE THE PUBLIC KNOWS TO LOOK WHETHER IT'S ON A SPINDLE IN CITY HALL OR AND NOWADAYS WITH ELECTRONIC MEANS IN THE RIGHT YOU KNOW, WEBSITE LINK OR WHAT HAVE YOU SO OPEN TO THE PUBLIC REASONABLE NOTICE.

AND THE THIRD IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT MINUTES ARE TAKEN AT EACH MEETING.

SOME MEETINGS, SUCH AS QUASI-JUDICIAL ONES, THERE MAY BE A COURT REPORTER.

COURT REPORTER IS NOT REQUIRED, BUT AT LEAST A SUMMARY OF THE ACTIONS TAKEN AT THE MEETING HAS TO BE TAKEN, WHICH IS THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING.

GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

DONNA. ONCE AGAIN, THERE ARE BOTH CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE SUNSHINE LAWS.

A KNOWING VIOLATION COULD BE A MISDEMEANOR IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

IT'S PUNISHABLE BY IMPRISONMENT FOR 60 DAYS, BUT OTHER VIOLATIONS ARE NON-CRIMINAL, WHICH ARE SUBJECT TO CIVIL PENALTIES.

AND ALSO, ONE EXTRA THING IS ACTION TAKEN AT A MEETING THAT VIOLATED SUNSHINE LAWS COULD VERY WELL AND ANYTHING TAKEN AT THAT MEETING, LIKE A CONTRACT APPROVED OR WHAT HAVE YOU, COULD BE VOIDABLE.

SO, YOU KNOW, EVEN A PERSON WHO HAS AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA THAT ISN'T, YOU KNOW, APPROVED PURSUANT TO THE SUNSHINE LAWS.

IF THERE'S A VIOLATION THAT THAT ACTION HAS THE JEOPARDY OF NOT BEING VALID.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, DONNA.

AND ESSENTIALLY THIS THIS SLIDE COVERS WHEN THE SUNSHINE LAWS APPLY.

AND THAT IS WHENEVER THERE'S ANY TWO OR MORE BOARD MEMBERS OF THE SAME COLLEGIAL BODY.

SO OBVIOUSLY, IF THE IF TWO OF YOU ON THIS COMMISSION, FOR EXAMPLE, WANTED TO MEET, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A NOTICE, DO IT IN PUBLIC, HAVE MINUTES, ET CETERA.

[01:00:01]

WE'RE IT'S A SMALL COMMUNITY.

WE'RE PROXIMATE TO EACH OTHER.

PEOPLE CAN GO AND HAVE DINNER OR LUNCH BUT BE AWARE THAT NO PUBLIC DISCUSSION SHOULD TAKE PLACE OF ANY ITEM THAT COULD COME BEFORE YOU, AND SOMETIMES A CONSIDERATION OF THE OPTICS OF THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

NOW, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN COMMISSIONER HERE ON THE COMMISSION GOING, YOU KNOW, AND MEETING WITH A MEMBER OF ONE OF THE OTHER BOARDS OR COMMISSIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, IF ONE OF YOU HERE WANTED TO GRAB LUNCH AND TALK ABOUT STUFF WITH AN SC BOARD MEMBER OR, YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR OTHER BOARDS, THAT'S OKAY.

AS LONG AS IT'S NOT MORE THAN TWO ON THE SAME BOARD, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

DONNA. JASON.

YES? YOU HAVE THE SECOND BULLET.

SINGLE BOARD MEMBERS MAY MEET WITH THE MAYOR.

YEAH. SO I WHEN THE MAYOR IS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT BECAUSE THIS THIS ACTUALLY, THAT'S A GOOD, ASTUTE POINT.

THIS WAS ESSENTIALLY THIS IS A TRAINING FOR CITY OF JACKSONVILLE, WHERE THE MAYOR IS NOT ON THE COMMISSION.

IF THE MAYOR IS ON THE COMMISSION, WHICH THIS MAYOR IS, THEN HE'S STILL A PART OF THE COLLEGIAL BODY.

SO THAT WOULD NOT APPLY IN THIS CASE.

GOOD POINT. YEAH.

AGAIN, TYPES OF DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE COVERED BY SUNSHINE LAW.

ANY MEETING, ANY MATTERS THAT MAY FORESEEABLY COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION, ANYTHING THAT'S SET FORTH IN PENDING ORDINANCES OR RESOLUTIONS.

YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT COULD EVENTUALLY COME UP FOR SOME SORT OF ACTION.

THOSE WOULD BE THE THINGS YOU WOULD CONSIDER.

WOULD YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, DONNA? THERE ARE VERY IN PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.

THERE'S A WHOLE MENU OF EXEMPTIONS, AND YOU HAVE TO POINT TO IT IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE IT IN SUNSHINE LAW.

THERE ARE ONLY REALLY TWO EXEMPTIONS TO THE SUNSHINE LAW WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE USUAL ELEMENTS LIKE NOTICE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

THE BIGGEST ONE IS COLLECTIVE BARGAINING STRATEGY SESSIONS.

NO NOTICE OR MINUTES ARE EVEN REQUIRED FOR THAT SORT OF THING.

THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN, BUT IF IT'S PURE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, THERE'S A PROTOCOL WE GO THROUGH, BUT THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR ANY OF THAT.

WE CAN MEET IN THE SHADE ON THAT PARTICULAR SET OF DISCUSSIONS.

AND THEN THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED LIMITED ATTORNEY CLIENT LITIGATION STRATEGY SESSIONS.

I DON'T THINK I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER HAD ONE SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE.

BUT I THINK YOU HAVE HAD WE HAVE HAD PRIOR; I THINK WITH BRENNA DURDEN.

AGAIN, THOSE ARE LIMITED.

YOU STILL HAVE TO ACTUALLY MEET.

IT'S THERE'S A PROTOCOL FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY MEET IN THE PUBLIC.

YOU CLOSE IT, THEN YOU MEET IN THE SHADE.

THERE'S THERE ARE NOTICE REQUIREMENTS.

YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, NOTICE FOR THOSE.

AND THEN THERE'S REQUIREMENTS FOR A COURT REPORTER.

SO THERE'S EVERYTHING IS BEING TRANSCRIBED.

AND I'VE BEEN PART OF THOSE TWO.

THE THING YOU CAN'T FORGET THERE IS THAT EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN THE SHADE AND NO ONE'S WATCHING IT, EVERYTHING'S BEING TRANSCRIBED.

AND THAT SOMEDAY LATER, WHEN THE LITIGATION IS OVER WITH, IT'S ALL THAT ALL BECOMES PUBLIC AND PEOPLE CAN READ IT LATER.

SO JUST GOOD TO KEEP THOSE, YOU KNOW, THINGS IN MIND.

AND THE LAST SLIDE, DONNA.

THIS JUST GOES OVER KIND OF SOME THINGS I'VE ALREADY TOUCHED ON REASONABLE NOTICE.

IT'S UNDEFINED, BUT IT'S ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

IT'S GOT TO BE PROPER.

AT LEAST 24 HOURS, I'D SUBMIT.

IT NEEDS TO BE A LITTLE MORE THAN THAT.

BUT 24 HOURS IS GENERALLY CONSIDERED THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR, FOR HAVING NOTICE AGAIN, EVEN IF THERE'S A GENERAL KNOWLEDGE LIKE, WE KNOW, LIKE WE DISCUSSED EARLIER TODAY THAT THIS COMMISSION MEETS, YOU KNOW, ON THE SECOND AND FOURTH MONDAY OF EVERY MONTH EXCEPT FOR DECEMBER, EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE KNOWS THAT YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE THE PRESCRIBED NOTICE WITH DATE, TIME, PLACE, LOCATION, ALL THAT STUFF THAT'S STILL REQUIRED AGAIN, IN A PLACE TYPICALLY SET ASIDE FOR POSTING AND LASTLY THERE'S NO KNOWN RIGHT FOR A CITIZEN TO SPEAK AT A MEETING UNLESS PROVIDED BY THE RULES.

AND BUT AS WE'VE DISCUSSED EARLIER, OUR STATUTE, THERE'S A STATUTE NOW THAT THAT ALLOWS FOR PUBLIC TO BE HEARD IN PROXIMITY TO AN ACTION ITEM BEFORE IT'S OR BEFORE IT'S APPROVED. AND WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT AFFORDS THAT.

SO I WAS TRYING TO PACK A LOT IN, AND WE'LL SEE.

A 637. NOT TOO BAD.

COMPLIMENTS, MR. GABRIEL. THAT WAS CONCISE AND INFORMATIVE AND VERY BRIEF.

THANK YOU. BUT THE KEY IS, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CALL AND JUST REAL BRIEFLY ON.

THERE'S A WHOLE THING ON ETHICS.

YOU COULD SPEND DAYS ON THAT AS WELL.

VOTING CONFLICTS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

IF THERE'S EVER ANYTHING THAT COMES BEFORE YOU THAT YOU EVEN HAVE AN INKLING AGAIN, FRIENDS COME UP ALL THE TIME JUST BECAUSE IT'S A FRIEND AND THEY HAVE A PROPOSITION FOR YOU DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO.

[01:05:02]

BUT IF THERE'S EVER A FINANCIAL STAKE, EVEN IF IT'S INDIRECT, I'D SUGGEST GIVING ME A CALL WELL, IN ADVANCE OF THAT SO WE CAN TALK IT THROUGH.

AS YOU KNOW, ETHICS, THE STATUTES ARE VERY COMPLICATED AND FACTS ARE ALWAYS VERY GRAY.

AND SO THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ANALYSIS BEFORE ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO MY ONE LESSON THERE WOULD BE JUST PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL IF THERE'S EVER A QUANDARY ON AN ETHICS ITEM.

BUT WITH THAT I'LL LEAVE IT.

AND FEEL FREE TO FOLLOW UP WITH ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.

OKAY. EVERYBODY GOOD? OKAY. THANK YOU.

JASON. WE WILL DISPENSE WITH ITEM ONE K ESTABLISHING PRIORITIES.

ITEM 111 MISCELLANEOUS.

[1.L. Miscellaneous]

I'LL DEFINE THAT AT EACH MEETING.

AND IF THERE IS NO FURTHER BUSINESS, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.

WE'LL RECESS FOR FIVE MINUTES, AND THEN WE'LL RECONVENE THE SECOND MEETING.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.