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[00:00:01]

I TEXTED HIM. THIS COMMISSION WORKSHOP DATED MONDAY, MARCH 2ND, 2026 BETWEEN.

[CALL TO ORDER]

WELL, REGARDING TREE PROTECTION CODE CHAPTER 23.

WE NOW COME TO ORDER. POINT OF CLARIFICATION.

I'VE ASKED THAT OUR ESC MEMBERS STAY. THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY DESIGNATED AS PART OF THIS AS A BACK AND FORTH, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME BACK AND FORTH BECAUSE I GOT SOME QUESTIONS AND THERE MAY BE SOME OTHER QUESTIONS.

I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MR. HOGENCAMP KIND OF KICK IT OFF WITH THE STAFF OVERVIEW.

[TOPIC: TREE PROTECTION CODE (CHAPTER 23)]

I'M GOING TO HOLD MY COMMENTS TILL RIGHT AFTER YOU'RE DONE WITH THAT. THAT'S OKAY, KEVIN.

THANK YOU. MAYOR FORD, I'D LIKE TO START BY ACKNOWLEDGING THAT OUR SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT ON THIS TOPIC, AMANDA ASKEW, OUR NEIGHBORHOODS DIRECTORS HERE, AS IS CHRIS DELCOUR, OUR ARBORIST.

AND, CHRIS, YOU WANT TO SAY HI TO EVERYONE SO THEY CAN SEE YOUR FACE? LET'S SEE. SO SINCE PRESENTING THE INITIAL RED LINE CHAPTER 23 DRAFT IN NOVEMBER, WE'VE BEEN IN AN ACTIVE LISTENING MODE.

WE'RE INCORPORATING FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE ALREADY GOTTEN AND THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET FROM THE COMMISSION, FROM THE ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP COMMITTEE, FROM THE COMMUNITY.

WE'RE GOING TO SYNTHESIZE THIS INPUT IN PREPARATION FOR THE APRIL TOWN HALL MEETING WHERE MAYOR FORD AND I HAVE THE IDEA THAT THERE WOULD BE A DEDICATED FORUM FOR BROADER COMMUNITY INPUT ON OUR TREE CANOPY GOALS.

AND WITHIN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, WE'LL RETURN TO THE COMMISSION WITH A SECOND RED LINE VERSION THAT REFLECTS ALL OF THIS COLLABORATIVE FEEDBACK.

WE HOPE TO ENSURE THAT WHERE WE'RE HEADED IS BASED ON DATA.

WE HOPE TO HAVE A TREE INVENTORY DONE IN THE COMING MONTHS.

SO HERE'S WHERE WHERE WE ARE WITH THAT. WE'VE APPLIED FOR A GRANT TO FUND THIS PROFESSIONAL ASSESSMENT.

WE WON'T KNOW THE OUTCOME OF THAT GRANT UNTIL JUNE 30TH.

HOWEVER, WE COULD DECIDE AS AN ORGANIZATION. WELL, LET'S GO AHEAD AND PAY FOR IT.

IT'S NOT TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE. AND WE MAY ASK THE COMMISSION IF YOU WANT TO JUMP START THAT.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE HAVE RE-INITIATED OUR REQUEST TO THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE TO UTILIZE THEIR TREE PLOTTER SOFTWARE.

WE EXPECT A FAVORABLE RESPONSE BASED ON SOME FEEDBACK THAT I GOT LAST WEEK.

AND THIS WOULD ALLOW US TO ENABLE US TO MAP AND MONITOR OUR MOST SIGNIFICANT OAKS WITH PRECISION.

SO BY COMBINING OUR COMMUNITY FEEDBACK AND A PRECISE INVENTORY OF OUR MOST VALUABLE SPECIES, WE ASPIRE IN THE COMING MONTHS TO BRING A CODE TO Y'ALL, RECOMMENDED BY STAFF, THAT DOESN'T JUST MANAGE GROWTH, BUT THAT PRESERVES OUR COMMUNITY CHARACTER. SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT TO HELP KICK OFF YOUR DISCUSSION.

AMANDA, IN PARTICULAR IS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, AND SO IS CHRIS.

OKAY. BEFORE WE START ASKING QUESTIONS, IF I MAY, I JUST WANT TO SET THE TABLE ON ONE ISSUE.

SO I RAISED MY HAND SEVERAL MONTHS AGO. WELL, MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THAT LONG AGO, BUT WHEN WE HAD THE MAGNIFICENT 200 PLUS YEAR OLD OAK ON WEST 1ST STREET CUT RECENTLY, IT REALLY WAS AN ISSUE THAT BROUGHT IT TO THE FORE.

AND SO WHAT CAN WE DO? WHAT SHOULD WE DO? AND AT THIS POINT, MY CHARGE.

AND I HOPE THE COMMISSION AGREED WITH THIS, BUT IT'S FOR CITY STAFF LED BY MR. HOGENCAMP TO DO SOME STUDYING. AND I KNOW. WAS IT YOU, AMY, THAT HAD REACHED OUT? YOU HAD ACTUALLY LINED UP SOMEBODY FOR IN ALACHUA? SO I WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS INTO CHAPTER 23, BUT IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE THOUGHTFUL.

AND LET ME GIVE YOU A CHALLENGE HERE. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IS IF WE EVEN DECIDED WHAT SIZE TREE, AND MAYBE WE JUST MIRROR SOMEBODY ELSE'S ORDINANCE AND WE BASE IT ON THAT.

IF WE DECIDED THAT. WITHOUT THE TREE STUDY, WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE HAVE 30 OF THOSE TREES, 300 OF THOSE TREES, OR 3000 OF THOSE TREES. AND I THINK IT'S REALLY PERTINENT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE INVENTORY IS.

SECONDLY, IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PORTION OF THE INVENTORY IS IN RIGHTS OF WAY AND WHAT PORTION IS ACTUALLY ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE'LL GET THERE. I HOPE WE DO, BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO START WITH SOMETHING.

SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE. AND THEN THE OTHER ISSUE THAT I THINK SHOULD BE THOUGHT OF BY BOTH BODIES,

[00:05:03]

YOUR BODY AND US AND THEN ALL OF OUR CITIZENS IS, WHAT IS OUR REAL ABSOLUTE MAJOR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY IN THIS CITY? A TREE CITY, USA. I THINK IT'S TREES, OKAY? IT'S NOT WATER, EVEN THOUGH THAT IS PERHAPS EQUALLY, MAYBE EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.

RIGHT? BUT HERE'S WHERE I'M GOING. ARE WE WILLING TO TRADE ONE FOR THE OTHER WHEN THERE IS NO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH. EXAMPLE. MOST OF OUR STORMWATER RETENTION THAT'S MANDATED UNDER THE CODE, IS PLACED IN THE FRONT YARD OF A PROPERTY. AND IF YOU HAVE A 50 FOOT WIDE LOT IN OLD ATLANTIC BEACH AND YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE MAGNIFICENT 240 YEAR OLD OAK TREES, IT'S A GOOD BET THE ROOTS TRAVERSE A MAJORITY OF THAT 50FT.

SO HOW DO YOU PUT IN YOUR STORMWATER? AND SO MY POINT IS THIS.

YOUR BODY SHOULD BE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY, AND THE CITY SHOULD BE DOING THEIR OWN ANALYSIS, AND THEN IT SHOULD ALL COME TO THE COMMISSION.

AND THAT IS WE WOULD BE WILLING TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION ON STORMWATER.

IT MAY NOT BE EXEMPTING STORMWATER ON A NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT IT MIGHT BE REDUCING IT BY 50% BECAUSE WE'D RATHER KEEP THAT OLD TREE.

AND OH, BY THE WAY, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU SELL US ON ALL THE TIME, I LISTEN.

AND THAT IS, TREES ACTUALLY DRINK STORMWATER AND DISSIPATE OR SUCK UP STORMWATER AS IT'S COMING DOWN.

MAYBE NOT AT THE RATE WE'D LIKE TO BELIEVE, BUT THEY DO.

THEY HAVE AN IMPACT. SO THAT'S ONE THING THAT I THINK SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

AND ANOTHER ONE IS DO WE REALLY WANT TO BE PROGRESSIVE IN OUR THINKING AS A CITY AND WE CARE ABOUT TREES? DO WE WANT TO CREATE SOME SORT OF ORDINANCE OR DIRECTION FOR CITY STAFF THAT THEY WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION, LET'S SAY, ON A SETBACK? OKAY. MOST OF OUR SETBACKS IN THIS AREA, FOR EXAMPLE, ARE 20FT ON THE FRONT AND 20FT ON THE BACK. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, AMANDA.

YOU'RE CORRECT. SO IF I HAD A TREE THAT I REALLY WANTED TO SAVE AND OUT OF FAIRNESS TO THE PROPERTY OWNER, THEY CAN CUT IT DOWN AND BUILD WHAT THEY WANT.

OR THEY COULD SAVE THE TREE, BUT MOVE THE HOUSE BACK.

AND NOW IT'S A 15 FOOT SETBACK ON THE REAR INSTEAD OF 20.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT A CITY COULD REASONABLY DO WITHOUT SOMEBODY CRYING, YOU KNOW, GRAFT AND CORRUPTION? BECAUSE THAT'S OFTEN WHAT HAPPENS. SO THESE ARE THE THINGS I WANT ALL OF US TO BE THINKING ABOUT IS WHAT CAN WE DO DIFFERENT TO GET WHERE WE WANT TO GO? BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO HELP SAVE SOME TREES AS WELL.

SO WITH THAT I'M GOING TO. GO AHEAD. YOU BROUGHT UP AN INTERESTING.

A PREVIOUS CITY MANAGER. I THINK THREE BACK BROUGHT ME IN ONE DAY.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF MAYBE YOU'VE SEEN THIS THE RIGHT OF WAY CHART, BUT THE CITY SUBMITTED, RIGHT? IF YOU TOOK THAT CHART AND YOU EMBEDDED IT OVER A LOT OF OUR STREETS, I THINK YOU WOULD GO, WOW, I'D LOVE TO SEE IT BECAUSE IT CUTS THROUGH AND THE ROUTES THAT THESE TREES ARE ON.

YEAH. I THINK THAT'S A TOPIC THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT, BECAUSE I WAS SURPRISED AT THE RIGHT OF WAY OF.

LOOK AT OCEAN. YOU KNOW, TAKE A LOOK DOWN THERE.

I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO. BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT IT UP ON THE RIGHT OF WAY. I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH CHAPTER 23. I THINK WE CAN DO BETTER.

I KNOW YOU REMEMBER, WE HAD SOMEBODY IN HERE FOR THREE YEARS WHO'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH AND BACK AND FORTH, YOU KNOW. ON WHAT. I MEAN, I PICKED UP. I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO TALK SPECIFICALLY ON THAT, YOU KNOW, DOUBLE MITIGATION REQUIRED FOR TREATMENT REMOVAL UNDER PENALTY OF X, Y, Z.

SO THOSE ARE ISSUES I KNOW WE'LL GO THROUGH THIS, BUT I THINK WE'D BE VERY SURPRISED IF YOU SAW THAT CHART ON THE SCREEN.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT I'LL SAVE ANY FURTHER COMMENTS.

HOW DO YOU WANT TO RUN ON THIS? SAME THING, FIVE MINUTES? YES. THAT WAS OUR PLAN AND I´LL GUESS I GO AHEAD AND POINT OUT.

COMMISSIONER BOLE, THE INTENT TONIGHT, UNLESS YOU ALL DECIDE OTHERWISE, WE'RE ACTUALLY NOT GOING THROUGH THE WHOLE CHAPTER TONIGHT.

BUT WE CAN PICK OUT.

LET'S START AT THIS END. YOU'VE GOT THE FLOOR, MR. BOLE. YEAH. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY I CAN, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS A FEW TIMES, BUT I THINK WE CAN DO BETTER IN ENFORCEMENT AND EDUCATION.

THAT'S ALL. OKAY. COMMISSIONER KELLY. I'D LIKE TO HEAR OF THE CASE BY CASE.

IF WE CAN SAVE THIS TREE BY MOVING THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS MUCH.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A PROPONENT OF BUILDING THE LOT YOU GOT.

[00:10:05]

BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THE ENTHUSIASM OF PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THEIR IDEAL RETIREMENT HOME.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE DOWN HERE IN A YEAR. AND IN THE MEANTIME, THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO BUILD THE HOUSE THEY WANT. SO I REALLY LIKE THAT IDEA.

I LIKE THE IDEA THAT THE MORE TREES YOU HAVE, THE LESS RETENTION YOU NEED TO HAVE BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING THE WORK OF PREVENTION.

YOU LIKE THAT A LOT. ONE OF OUR CHALLENGES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE IS THE ROOT ZONE PROTECTION.

SO I KNOW WE'VE SAID. [INAUDIBLE]. OKAY. YOU ARE NOW FOREVER KNOWN AS THE ARBORIST DUDE. YOU FIND OUT THE CONSTRUCTION SITES AND TRY TO LIMIT THE DAMAGE YOU'VE DONE TO RETREAT ROUTES AND GET CERTIFIED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RAISE OUR HAND AND SAY, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT PLAZA? BECAUSE THE TREES THAT WE'RE PARKING ON PLAZA ARE CERTAINLY AT RISK.

IT'S A BEAUTIFUL GROVE OF TREES, AND I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER.

I'M JUST GOING TO SAY THAT. IF I MAY, DO WE KNOW IT? AND WE DID RAISE OUR HANDS TODAY. AND WE ARE COMING UP WITH A PLAN.

THIS IS SERIOUS. WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO NOT ALLOW FOLKS TO DAMAGE OUR TREE ROOTS ON PLAZA RIGHT NOW.

AND ON THE OTHER HAND, ON SAILFISH BETWEEN SEASPRAY AND ATLANTIC, WHERE WE PLANTED ALL THOSE TREES SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

THIS REALLY STARTED TO LOOK LIKE.

SO I DON'T HAVE ANY REAL HEARTBURN, JUST THE STUFF IN THE CHART.

I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE ONES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE THAT NEED DISCUSSION.

LIKE TREE ROOTS, THE SMALL LOTS, YOU KNOW, AND THAT GOES BACK TO A LOT OF MY CASE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE LITTLE HOUSES THAT WANT TO GET BIGGER.

WE'RE GOING INTO MCMANSION ZONE. AND HOW DO YOU PRESERVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR TREES AND BALANCE OUT THE HOMEOWNERS? THAT DOES THE TALKING WITH US AND TRY US ON THAT.

COMMISSIONER, YOU´RE GOOD?. OK. COMMISSIONER RING.

SO WITH THE THIRD SECTION THERE, IT SAYS HIGHER MITIGATION FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT IS INTENDED TO DISCOURAGE CLEARCUTTING.

WHAT IS THAT HIGHER MITIGATION COMPARED TO ON A REGULAR LOT THAT'S NOT A NEW DEVELOPMENT? SO THE CURRENT CODE IS WRITTEN AND DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.

YOU HAVE VACANT PROPERTY, NEW DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT AND THEN HERITAGE TREES AND ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE AREAS.

IT'S FURTHER BROKEN DOWN BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE TREE, LIKE UP TO 14IN IN DIAMETER HAS ONE MITIGATION, BUT ESC HAS HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION AND WAS REALLY CONCERNED AND WANTED TO TARGET THE TEAR DOWNS AND THE NEW DEVELOPMENT AND NOT PENALIZE THE HOMEOWNERS THAT WERE ADDING A POOL OR ADDING AN ADDITION TO THE HOUSE, BUT IT WAS THE NEW DEVELOPERS THAT TEND TO COME IN AND ALMOST CLEAR CUT THE PROPERTY.

SO THIS CATEGORY OF NEW DEVELOPMENT IS ADDED AND IT IS A HIGHER MITIGATION RATIO, THE HIGHEST THAT WE HAVE OTHER THAN HERITAGE TREES.

THAT WAS HOPEFULLY A DETERRENT TO DETER NEW DEVELOPMENT, TO REDESIGN POTENTIALLY AND SAVE SOME OF THE TREES.

SO IT IS A MUCH HIGHER MITIGATION RATIO. AND IN ESSENCE TO ENCOURAGE CREATING A DESIGN OVER THE TREES? THAT WAS ONE OF THE THOUGHTS. I MEAN, OF COURSE, WE SEE OFTENTIMES THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT A SQUARE BOX TO BUILD IN.

AND WITHIN THAT SQUARE BOX THEY TEND TO TAKE THE TREES DOWN.

BUT HOPEFULLY IT WAS TO GIVE A DEVELOPER PAUSE TO THINK ABOUT, WOW, THAT'S REALLY A LOT OF MITIGATION THAT WE HAVE TO PLANT BACK AND OR PAY INTO THE FUND. MAYBE WE COULD MOVE THE HOUSE BACK OR HAVE A CREATIVE DESIGN TO SAVE THAT TREE.

OKAY. I LIKE SEEING THAT. COULD I RESPOND TO THAT? SO HAVING THE HIGHER. AND THAT'S IN EXISTENCE NOW, THAT'S NOT REALLY CHANGING IN THE.

THE IDEA WAS REALLY WHERE ARE WE LOSING OUR CANOPY? IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, ME DECIDING TO CUT DOWN A TREE IN MY BACKYARD AND ALL THE CANOPY IS GONE.

[00:15:04]

IT'S THE NEW CONSTRUCTION. I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY WHERE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DID AN AERIAL.

OR IT'S WHEN THEY COME IN AND TEAR THE LITTLE HOUSE DOWN THAT'S GOT TREES ALL OVER THE PLACE AND EITHER CLEAR CUT OR CUT A SWATH AND LEAVE A FEW IN THE CORNERS, BACK CORNERS OF THE LOT. THAT'S WHERE WE WERE LOSING IT.

SO WE SAID, WELL, LET'S MAKE IT MORE PAINFUL AND MAYBE THEY'LL TRY TO SAVE THEM.

SO WE INCREASED THE RATE, Y'ALL OR YOUR PREDECESSORS VOTED TO DO THAT.

THE MITIGATION RATE. AND IF IT DOESN'T, THEN AT LEAST WE'LL HAVE MORE MONEY IN THE MITIGATION FUND TO PLANT TO FUND THE PLANTING OF REPLACEMENT TREES IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY.

YEAH. WELL, MY SECOND CAVEAT QUESTION TO THAT, AMANDA, WAS SUBDIVIDING.

I THINK I SEE THAT OFTEN. THEY PURCHASE A PROPERTY, THEY SUBDIVIDE IT, AND THEY BUILD TWO WHERE THERE WAS ONE, WHICH MEANS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO WEST 1ST STREET, THAT PROPERTY.

THAT'S WHY WE LOST THAT 250 YEAR OLD OAK. HAD THEY KEPT THE ONE PROPERTY AT ONE, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD PLENTY OF SPACE FOR ONE HOME. NOW IT'S A DEVELOPER. SO THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN.

WHAT CAN WE DO WITH THAT? THAT'S A DIFFICULT ONE.

BECAUSE THE CODE DOES ALLOW THE SUBDIVISION. THEY MET THE MINIMUM CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE LOT WIDTH AND THE LOT DEPTH.

AND IT WAS A RELATIVELY SMALL LOT. A 50 FOOT WIDE LOT.

A LITTLE OVER 100FT DEEP. THE TREE IN THAT PARTICULAR ONE WAS IN A LARGE PORTION OF THE DEVELOPABLE AREA.

THERE'S OTHER TOOL BOXES. I MEAN, WE COULD INCREASE THE MITIGATION RATIOS YET AGAIN.

BUT WE'RE FINDING, ESPECIALLY WITH THE NEW DEVELOPMENT, THAT DEVELOPERS AREN'T NECESSARILY DETERRED BY INCREASING THE REQUIRED MITIGATION.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT WILL JUST SAY, OKAY, WE OWE YOU $80,000.

THAT'S NO BIG DEAL. LET ME GIVE YOU A CHECK. SO THE SMALLER LOTS IS WHERE STAFF IS REALLY STRUGGLING ON HOW DO WE ALLOW THE PERSON TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY.

WE WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP IT. BUT HOW DO WE SAVE OR PRESERVE THE TREE? RIGHT. BECAUSE IT'S TWOFOLD HERE. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE TREES AND THAT ASPECT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STORMWATER MITIGATION TOO.

AND MANAGEMENT, THE ISSUES WHERE WE OVERBUILD.

WE PUT CONCRETE WHERE THERE'S GREAT SPACE. OKAY.

I DO.

COMMENT FROM MR. BOLE. KIND OF ON THIS POINT.

DO THE MATH. IF I'M BUILDING A $5 MILLION HOUSE.

RIGHT? AND YOU LOOK AT THE TREE MITIGATION, DO THE PERCENTAGE.

YOU'RE PAYING YOUR REALTOR TWICE OF WHAT. OR THREE TIMES WHAT THAT TREE MITIGATION PRICE IS.

SO WE'RE FACING. I MEAN, THAT'S A HARD ONE, RIGHT? I WANT TO BUILD. I'VE GOT A LOT THAT'S WORTH A LOT OF MONEY.

YOU KNOW, GO AHEAD ON ZILLOW AND TAKE A LOOK AROUND.

SO THAT'S THE HARD QUESTION. I, AS A DEVELOPER, WANT TO DO WHAT MY CLIENT WANTS, RIGHT? AND YOU TELL THEM, HEY, THAT'S GOING TO COST YOU $25,000.

OKAY. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE MY PERFECT HOUSE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A BIG ONE WE'RE FACING. YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE PRICES, IT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF MONEY.

BUT I'M TELLING YOU, WHEN YOU WHEN YOU LOOK OUT AND YOU DO THE PERCENTAGES, IT DOESN'T COME OUT MUCH.

AND THEN CAN I ADD TO THAT? SO YOU'VE BOUGHT THIS VERY EXPENSIVE LAND.

YOU ARE GOING TO THEREFORE BUILD PROBABLY THE BIGGEST HOUSE YOU CAN.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD SETBACK TO SETBACK, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE STORM WATER.

SO YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE SPACE LEFT TO REPLANT.

AND THEN STAFF IS CONCERNED, IF YOU ARE REPLANTING WITHIN TEN YEARS, IS THE TREE GOING TO BE TOO CLOSE TO THE FOUNDATION OR TOO CLOSE TO THE HOUSE? AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE STATE EXEMPTION AND YOU CAN COME IN AND TAKE DOWN THE REQUIRED MITIGATION.

SO MAYBE WE CAN LOOK AT. IT'S NOT POPULAR CHANGING SOME OF THE SETBACKS TO ALLOW FOR TREES TO GROW.

YEAH. AND BEFORE I CALL ON THE NEXT PERSON, JUST A THOUGHT ON THAT.

YOU GUYS ALREADY KNOW WHAT TO DO. BUT IF WE DID HAVE THAT POWER BESTOWED UPON CITY STAFF VIA THE CITY MANAGER ON A LIMITED BASIS TO GRANT THOSE EXCEPTIONS, YOU WOULD PROBABLY WANT A PROCESS THAT SAYS YOU HAVE NO OBJECTION FROM ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNERS.

I'D LIKE THAT THOUGHT THAT YOU HAD. MAYBE WE STILL ADVERTISE IT LIKE WE DO A VARIANCE WHERE THE NEIGHBORS WITHIN 300FT ARE NOTIFIED AND THE SIGN.

SO THAT'S INTERESTING. COMMISSIONER GRANT. YEAH.

THANK YOU, MAYOR. CAN YOU START IT FOR FIVE? YEAH, YOU CAN HAVE FIVE.

SO WHEN I MET AND ATTENDED ONE OF THE MEETINGS WHERE I SPOKE FOR, I GUESS ABOUT AN HOUR AT MINIMUM,

[00:20:08]

I ECHOED ALL THESE COMMENTS ABOUT THE HIGHER MITIGATION, AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CAN DO TO INCENTIVIZE DEVELOPERS FROM COMING IN AND CLEAR CUTTING.

YOU KNOW, WHAT'S A GOOD WAY? WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING A DEVELOPER TOWN HALL.

I THINK IT WAS MENTIONED ON IN THE PREVIOUS MEETING.

I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD THAT YET, HAVE WE? SO WE PROBABLY SHOULD TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THEIR COMMENTS? WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WHAT WE DO RESONATES WITH THEM.

AND IF THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT FLEXIBILITY ON SETBACKS, YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THEY'D BE IN FAVOR OF.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN, I TALKED ABOUT THE PERCENTAGE, YOU KNOW, THE PRICE OF DIRT IN THIS TOWN IS GOING THROUGH THE ROOF AND PAYING, YOU KNOW, 01, 2% EVEN AT 100 GRAND TO REMOVE ALL THE TREES IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET.

THEY JUST, YOU KNOW, DON'T CARE. SO I'D LIKE TO SEE US HAVE THAT TOWN HALL AND SEE.

AND I'M HAPPY TO PARTICIPATE AND SEE WHAT, YOU KNOW.

WHAT ARE THEY HAVING TO SAY? WHAT WOULD THEY LIKE TO SEE US KEEP THEM FROM DOING THAT? OR AT LEAST GIVING THEM SOME PAUSE TO DO IT. ANOTHER THING WE TALKED ABOUT WAS INCENTIVES FOR PRESERVATION. IT'S NUMBER 5 ON THE BOTTOM.

I TALKED ABOUT THAT. BUT ALSO KIND OF TIED IN WITH MITIGATION LOCATION, I THINK I KNOW WE HAVE SOME RULES THAT STATE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS SOME MITIGATION OFF PROPERTY, IT HAS TO BE WITHIN A CERTAIN.

HOW MANY FEET IS IT, AMANDA? QUARTER MILE. QUARTER MILE.

YOU KNOW, SO TALKING ABOUT. AGAIN, NOT TURNING THE GUY WANTS TO PUT A POOL TO HIS YARD, YOU KNOW, TURNING THEM INTO A BAD GUY, BUT ALLOWING THEM TO MITIGATE BECAUSE THEY'VE ALSO GOT EIGHT OTHER OAKS IN THEIR PROPERTY OR SOME OTHER SPECIES WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT.

LET THEM MITIGATE OFF PROPERTY SOMEWHERE WHERE WE CAN BUILD TREES.

I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF PLACES WE JUST DON'T HAVE ANY MORE ROOM.

WE ALREADY HAVE THAT. NO.

YES. IT'S ONLY A QUARTER MILE. WELL, NO, YOU KNOW HOW SMALL THIS CITY IS? I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF LOTS. THERE'S A LOT OF LOTS AND A LOT OF PROPERTY THAT DOESN'T HAVE.

YOU DEVELOP A LIST OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD LOVE SOME TREES IN THEIR YARD BUT CAN'T AFFORD THEM FOR WHATEVER REASON.

AND YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE TRYING TO MITIGATE TREES THAT THEY'VE TAKEN DOWN, MAYBE YOU HAVE A PROGRAM THAT ALLOWS THEM TO PLANT THOSE TREES IN AREAS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF LOTS OUTSIDE OF, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, BARRY, YOU WANT TO, YOU KNOW, BORDER YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF LOTS THAT JUST DON'T HAVE THAT MANY TREES, NOT NEAR THE CONCENTRATION OF TREES THAT WE HAVE ON, YOU KNOW, CLOSER TO THE SHORE.

SO I'D LIKE US TO SEE, YOU KNOW, US LOOK AT THAT IF WE CAN.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE GUY TRYING TO BUILD A POOL, HE HAS NOTHING.

HE HAS NO PLACE TO PUT IT, AND WE'RE JUST CROWDING AN ALREADY CROWDED CANOPY.

SO I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT REALLY HELPS US FIND A WAY TO DO THAT.

THE ROOT ZONE PROTECTION. SARAH AND I HAD A GREAT, YOU KNOW, GOOD CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO HAVE HOMEOWNERS LOOK AT US AS PROTECTORS OF THE CANOPY, AND WE CAN'T EVEN PROTECT OUR OWN TREES ON PLAZA.

SO I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, SO THAT'S GOOD.

I BROUGHT THAT UP LAST MEETING. SO GLAD WE'RE DOING SOMETHING THERE.

I THINK THAT WAS THE MAIN HOT SPOTS THAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT TODAY WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE ENTIRE LIST.

OKAY. THANK YOU, MAYOR. RIGHT. OKAY.

RESPOND TO A COUPLE OF HIS COMMENTS.

YOU KNOW, ALREADY GOT TOO MANY TREES. YOU BUILT A POOL YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE.

YOU WANT OFF SITE PLANTING. I MEAN, IN THAT CASE, I BELIEVE THAT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT ALLOWS YOU CAN PAY INTO THE MITIGATION FUND INSTEAD OF PLANTING ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY OR OFF SITE PLANTING.

AS LONG AS YOU MEET THE MINIMUM PLANTING ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY.

ONCE THAT MONEY IS IN THE MITIGATION FUND, IT'S BEING USED FOR THE ADOPT.

I KNOW WE'RE CALLING IT NOW, BUT THE ADOPT A TREE PROGRAM, WHERE YOU CAN SIGN UP AND GET A BIG TREE PLANTED IN YOUR FRONT YARD FOR FREE AS LONG AS YOU AGREE TO TAKE CARE OF IT AND WATER IT. SO WE'RE KIND OF ACCOMPLISHING THAT THROUGH THE MITIGATION FUND.

IS FUNDING ADOPT A TREE THING. THE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO MENTION.

[00:25:06]

AND BEFORE YOU GO ON, THOUGH, YOU'VE ONLY HAD THE ADOPT A TREE THING FOR TWO YEARS? A LITTLE LONGER THAN THAT. YEAH, IT'S BEEN IN THE CODE FOR A WHILE.

AND IS IT STARTING TO GET SOME TRACTION? IT'S HAD A FAIR AMOUNT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY.

AND WE'RE ALMOST AT 50 ALREADY FOR 2026. AND THAT DOESN'T COUNT THE LITTLE GIVEAWAYS OUT HERE IN THE PARKING LOT? YEAH. SO SORT OF SEPARATE FROM THE WHOLE MITIGATION AND WHAT GETS PLANTED BACK AND WHAT GETS REMOVED IS THE DEVELOPMENT CODE CHAPTER 20, WHATEVER IT IS. 24 REQUIRES, WHEN YOU BUILD A NEW HOUSE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE SHADE TREE IN THE FRONT YARD IF IT'S A 50 FOOT LOT AND IF IT'S BIGGER THAN 52, IS IT? FOR EVERY 2500FT², YOU'RE REQUIRED A TREE. OKAY.

SO AS YOU DRIVE AROUND AND YOU SEE THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, AND YOU LOOK AT IT AND YOU IN YOUR OWN MIND SAY, OH, THAT LOOKS NICE, OR I DON'T LIKE IT, WHATEVER.

YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE OUR PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE NEW STUFF, BUT I NOTICED THAT SOME PUT IN REALLY NICE TWO BIG OAK TREES IN THE FRONT.

AND THOSE ARE GOING TO END. AND IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE ONES WHERE THEY DID THAT TEN YEARS AGO, THOSE ARE PRETTY NICE TREES, LIKE THE LITTLE ONES WE PUT ON SAILFISH ARE STARTING TO LOOK PRETTY GOOD. THE BIGGER ONES THAT GOT PUT IN IN PEOPLE'S FRONT YARDS AS THAT WAS REQUIRED ARE REALLY LOOKING NICE.

AND YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO SAVE THE BIG ONES THAT WE CAN.

BUT MY DEAL IS KEEP PLANTING, KEEP PLANTING BECAUSE THEY'LL GROW AND GET BIG.

BUT ANYWAY, WE COULD DO SOMETHING IN CHAPTER 24 SEPARATE FROM MITIGATION REQUIREMENTS.

I LOOK AT SOME BIG OLD $4 MILLION, $5 MILLION HOUSES AND I SAY REALLY? THAT'S WHAT THEY ENDED UP WITH IN THEIR LANDSCAPE.

THAT'S ALL THEY´RE GOING TO DO? YOU KNOW, A PODOCARPUS HERE OR THERE AND, YOU KNOW, A SCRAWNY LITTLE TREE.

MAYBE WE SHOULD SAY LIKE ON A CORNER LOT UP ON OCEAN BOULEVARD, WHERE A BIG NEW $5 MILLION HOUSE JUST WENT IN.

I SEE ONE LITTLE SHADE TREE OVER ON THE SIDE STREET, BUMP THAT UP A LITTLE AND MAKE IT SO THAT EVERY TIME A NEW HOUSE COMES IN, IT'S GOT TO. MAYBE MAKE THEM MORE THAN FOUR INCH, MAKE THEM SIX INCH TREES OR SOMETHING.

BECAUSE, LIKE YOU SAID, IN A $4 OR $5 MILLION HOUSE, THAT'S A PITTANCE.

AND IT WOULD GET IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION. YEAH.

GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER. THANK YOU. I THINK I HAD A MINUTE LEFT WHEN I CLOSED UP MY COMMENTS, BUT NO, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, BRUCE. AND I DO AGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION IS REALLY THE FOCUS, YOU KNOW, IN PROTECTING THE CANOPY. WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS SOMEONE.

WELL, LET'S TAKE MY FORMER PROPERTY. I HAD I THINK 9 OAKS ON THAT PROPERTY.

AND IF I HAD DONE SOMETHING TO, YOU KNOW, REMOVE A PALM OR 2 OR 1 OF THE OAKS TO BUILD A POOL.

YOU KNOW, BUT YET I STILL MEET, YOU KNOW, SOME PREDETERMINED CALCULATION THAT MY EFFORT TO SUPPORT THE CANOPY IS EXPONENTIALLY GREATER THAN 90% OF OTHER PROPERTIES. SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, YOU SEE, AND THE PROPERTY IS BUILT TO CODE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, ALL THE SETBACKS, ALL THE THINGS MEETS, ALL THOSE BELLS AND WHISTLES AND MEETS THE STORM REQUIREMENTS, YOU KNOW, A RESPONSIBLE PROPERTY. YOU KNOW, I WISH WE COULD FIND A WAY TO GIVE THAT HOMEOWNER A BREAK.

AND I'M NOT LOOKING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO DO THIS, BUT JUST EASIER.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COST IS, COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING, BETWEEN MITIGATION AND PAYING INTO THE TREE FUND.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR SWAP.

I THINK IT'S EASIER TO PLANT IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

AND I'M JUST LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE.

THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT THEM TO BE FRIENDS OF THE CANOPY AND FRIENDS OF THE ESC AND PROTECTING THAT CANOPY.

AND IF THEY'RE DOING IT RESPONSIBLY. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A NICE WAY TO, YOU KNOW, PROTECT THE CANOPY, PROMOTE IT, AND GROW IT IN OTHER PLACES THAT NEED IT WORSE.

THANK YOU. OKAY. SO JUST A COUPLE OF COMMENTS.

I'M ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

SO I AM CONCERNED ONE OF THE CHANGES PROPOSED IN CHAPTER 23 IS TO HAVE A WIDER.

WELL, A GREATER DISTANCE OUT FROM A TREE ON A LOT WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION, A ROUTE PROTECTION ZONE.

AGAIN, I'LL GIVE THE EXAMPLE OF A 50 FOOT WIDE LOT IN ATLANTIC BEACH.

SO I BUILT HOMES ON SMALL LOTS OR NARROW LOTS.

IT'S HARD ON A 50 FOOT LOT TO GET INTO THE PROPERTY WITH YOUR CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS, YOUR DUMPSTER,

[00:30:02]

YOUR CEMENT TRUCK, EVERYTHING ON AND ON AND ON.

IF I'M A BUILDER AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT LOT TO WORK ON, I'M MORE INCLINED TO PAY THE FEE AND CUT THE TREE DOWN.

NOW, WE COULD TRY TO OUTLAW IT, BUT I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYBODY HERE IS IT'S NOT OKAY TO JUST OUTLAW THE REMOVAL OF TREES.

OKAY? NOW WE BETTER HAVE A PRETTY HEALTHY PURSE TO START BUYING PROPERTY, BECAUSE THERE ARE PROTECTIONS AGAINST JUST DENYING PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR PROPERTY. SO I DON'T WANT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

AND THE REASON WHY I BRING THIS UP IS I WANT TO UNDERSTAND.

AND THERE'S SOMEBODY HERE. WHAT ARE WE CALLING YOU NOW? OUR ARBORIST AID. MR. ARBORIST DUDE. OKAY. YOU'VE ONLY JUST ARRIVED, AND YOU'RE SITTING NEXT TO YOUR BOSS, AMANDA. BUT HOW MANY TREES. CAN WE IDENTIFY. OVER THE PAST JUST FIVE YEARS, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION.

HAVE WE HAD ANY OLD GROWTH? LET'S JUST USE LIVE OAKS.

OLD GROWTH LIVE OAKS THAT WERE DAMAGED OR KILLED BECAUSE OF CONSTRUCTION WHEN THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE SAVED? SO THAT'S MY FIRST QUESTION. SO THAT'S TO YOU, AMANDA, KIM, DO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER? I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER. WE DON'T TRACK THAT. I KIND OF THOUGHT WE DIDN'T.

YEAH. BUT USUALLY WE HAVE A PRETTY INVOLVED CITIZENRY.

SO USUALLY IF AN OLD GROWTH OAK TREE THAT'S 200 YEARS OLD DIED, SOMEBODY WOULD BE SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER ABOUT THAT.

SO I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T WANT TO OVERREACH AND THEN CAUSE BUILDERS TO WANT TO GET RID OF TREES AND PAY THE PRICE BECAUSE YOU SAID IT.

THE PROBLEM IS, WHEN YOU PAY $1 MILLION FOR DIRT AND THEN A MILLION AND A HALF FOR THE BUILDING THAT YOU'RE PUTTING ON THE DIRT.

WHAT'S $100,000 FEE FOR SIMPLICITY ON YOUR JOB SITE? YOU'RE GOING TO PAY 100,000. AND THAT'S A HUGE FEE, BY THE WAY.

BUT LET'S SAY YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY $100,000 AS A.

IT'S NOT ACTUALLY A FINDING. IT'S A. THANK YOU.

IT'S A CONVENIENCE FEE. SO I WANT TO THINK ABOUT THAT BEFORE WE RUN INTO APPROVING THAT CHANGE.

AND I WOULD WELCOME ANY DATA THAT SUGGESTS THAT THERE'S PROOF THAT THAT'S KILLING TREES.

YES, SIR. I AGREE WITH THAT. I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO HAVE A STRICT ORDINANCE THAT DOES WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE TREE ARBORIST SOCIETY OF AMERICA SAYS YOU SHOULD HAVE AS FAR AS PROTECTION ZONES ON A 50 FOOT LOT.

BUT WITH THAT ALL SAID, WHEREVER YOU END UP WITH ON THAT, I BELIEVE THAT ENFORCEMENT IS ALMOST MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHERE YOU END UP.

BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT OUR. SORRY, AMANDA.

I DON'T THINK THAT OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS AS CONCERNED ABOUT TREE PROTECTION AS IT IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOUR PLUMBING CONNECTION OR, YOU KNOW, YOUR HURRICANE TIE DOWN.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT A LOT. ONCE THEY DO THEIR INITIAL, YOU KNOW, ORANGE FENCE AROUND IT THAT GETS KNOCKED DOWN IN THE FIRST WEEK AND NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT IT. MAYBE NOW THAT WE HAVE CHRIS ON BOARD.

I'M NOT GOING TO CALL HIM THE ARBORIST DUDE. I´M GONNA CALL HIM CHRIS. BUT MAYBE HE'LL HELP MAKE SURE THAT THE BUILDING INSPECTORS OR WHOEVER ARE.

GIVE THAT PROPER ATTENTION WHEN THEY'RE OUT THERE FOR INSPECTING OTHER THINGS, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD TO HAVE RULES ABOUT HOW FAR YOU HAVE TO KEEP THINGS AWAY FROM THE TREE IF YOU DON'T ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT.

YEAH. SO I DON'T WANT TO BEAT THIS UP TOO MUCH.

BUT I REMEMBER AS A CHILD GROWING UP IN WEST JACKSONVILLE AND GOING TO WILLOW BRANCH LIBRARY AND BOONE PARK, AND YOU HAD ALL THESE OLD GROWTH LIVE OAKS AND YOU HAD ALL THE EXPOSED ROOTS AND PEOPLE PARKED ON THEM.

AND LAST I CHECKED OVER THERE, THEY'RE STILL GROWING.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO BE THOUGHTFUL AND NOT GET OVERBOARD ON THAT.

JUST A QUICK QUESTION. WHY COULDN'T WE HAVE YOU GOING FOR A BUILDING PERMIT? ONE OF THE CHECK BOXES IS OUR ARBORIST GO OUT THERE, TAKE A LOOK.

MAYBE A SUMMATION OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, GOOD, BAD, INDIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THE BUILDING PERMITTING PROCESS.

WELL, NOW YOU'VE GOT AN ARBITRARY PROCESS. NO, NO, I'M LOOKING FOR.

YOU JUST ALL ADMITTED THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE SAYING, LET'S START STUDYING IT AND GET FEEDBACK SO WE CAN ACTUALLY LEGISLATE SOMETHING, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. BUT WE MAKE IT ACTUALLY PART OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS.

I DON'T KNOW THE LANGUAGE. I DON'T KNOW. OUR LAWYER WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT IT, YOU KNOW, THE REST OF THAT.

BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DRIVE AROUND AND RANDOM LOOKING. WE'VE GOT AN EXPERT HERE.

OKAY. MAYBE A TAKEAWAY, CITY MANAGER? OKAY. BEFORE I LEAVE MY THING, I GET CONFUSED.

OKAY? WE GOT HERITAGE TREES. WE GOT LEGACY TREES.

[00:35:05]

TODAY I HEARD THE TERM ELDER TREES. IS THAT A NEW TERM? ELDER TREES? YES. IT HAS NOT BEEN CODIFIED IN THE CODE YET.

SO WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF. LET'S START WITH LEGACY.

WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF LEGACY? LEGACY TREES ARE A TYPE OF SPECIES OF TREES WHICH ARE THE SAME AS MARITIME SPECIES.

SO LEGACY AND MARITIME, THAT WAS A HOLDOVER. WE USED TO REFER TO MARITIME AS THE LEGACY.

AND WE USE THAT WORD INTERCHANGEABLE. SO WE'VE TRIED TO REMOVE AND BE MORE STREAMLINED AND USE MARITIME.

OKAY. SO MARITIME ARE YOUR OAKS, THE BIG SHADE TREES.

OKAY. AND THEN HERITAGE HERITAGE TREES ARE ANY TREE THAT'S DESIGNATED BY COMMISSION.

SO IN ORDER TO HAVE AN OFFICIAL HERITAGE DESIGNATION, IT'S TYPICALLY TREES THAT ARE 30IN IN DIAMETER THAT ARE NOMINATED, AND IT CAN BE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY OR PRIVATE PROPERTY.

OKAY. AND THEN ELDER TREES? ELDER TREES IS A NEW TERM THAT ESC HAS COME UP WITH, AND I CAN'T RECALL WHAT THE PARAMETER IS FOR IT. I THINK IT'S JUST AN INFORMAL TERM FOR.

OLD TREES. OLD TREES OR SIGNIFICANT TREES. YEAH.

WE WOULD KNOW ABOUT THAT.

TRYING TO PROTECT, ELDER BEING ONE OF THEM, LANDMARK BEING ANOTHER CHAMPION AND ALL THOSE TERMS. I DON'T THINK WE'RE LOOKING TO CODIFY THAT. SO THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR AARP? YOU GOT IT. WELL, I THINK IF WE END UP PUTTING SOMETHING IN THE ORDINANCE AT SOME POINT TO BETTER PROTECT THE REALLY BIG TREES, WHATEVER WE END UP CALLING THE REALLY BIG TREES.

ELDER. SO, SPECIAL. WHAT DO THEY CALL THEM IN ALACHUA, CHAMPION? YEAH. SO I'M GOOD WITH THAT. I MEAN, YOU GUYS ARE THE SMART PEOPLE.

AND AN ELDER TREE WOULD ALWAYS BE. A HERITAGE TREE WOULD ALWAYS BE A MARITIME LEGACY TREE.

YOU WOULD NEVER HAVE A HERITAGE TREE THAT'S NOT IN THE MARITIME SPECIES? WELL, WE GOT EVERYTHING NOW. WE'VE GOT A FULL POT OF TREES IN THE MARITIME FOREST DEFINITION.

OKAY? WHICH IS KIND OF GOOD BECAUSE THAT'S THE SELECTION GROUP OF MITIGATION.

OKAY? SO WE HAVE MORE TREES TO CHOOSE FROM. IT CONCERNS ME, THOUGH THAT WE TREAT PRETTY.

OTHER THAN PALMS, WE TREAT THEM ALL PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.

NOW, WE'RE TALKING NOW ABOUT MAYBE WRITING SOMETHING TO PROTECT THE OLD GROWTH HERITAGE TREES OF.

I'M NOT SURE IF WE WRITE LEGISLATION TO PROTECT THEM.

I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GOING TO. OR TO HAVE STIFFER RULES BEFORE REMOVING.

I'M NOT SURE I WOULD AGREE WITH 30IN. THAT TREE THAT WAS REMOVED ON WEST 1ST WAS 40 SOMETHING OR 50 SOMETHING INCHES? HOW BIG WAS THAT? YEAH IT WAS.

IT WAS UP THERE. YEAH. THAT ONE WAS TRULY OLD.

SO HERE'S WHERE I'M GOING IS, I THINK WE'RE TREATING TREES TOO SIMILAR.

AND THERE'S ONE MAJESTIC TREE IN THIS CITY THAT SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE EVERY OTHER TREE.

WHAT IS IT IS? A LIVE OAK. AND THE REASON WHY? BECAUSE THEY LIVE A LONG TIME, SO I CAN'T. I SAID THIS ABOUT THE TREE ON WEST 1ST STREET.

I CAN'T REPLACE THAT TREE IN ONE LIFETIME. I CAN'T REPLACE IT IN TWO.

I CAN'T REPLACE IT IN THREE LIFETIMES. THAT'S WHAT MAKES THAT SPECIAL.

THAT'S WHY THAT TREE GETS SOME CONSIDERATION HERE.

BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SYCAMORE TREE OF THE SAME SIZE, I'M SORRY.

IT'S NOT IN THE SAME, YOU KNOW, DEAL. SO I THINK WE SHOULD CHANGE THAT.

AND I'LL POINT IT OUT AND I'LL PUNCTUATE IT WITH OUR CODE CURRENTLY SAYS, AN OAK MUST BE REPLACED WITH AN OAK.

RIGHT? OKAY. BUT A WATER OAK DOESN'T LIVE MORE THAN 80 YEARS.

SO SOMEBODY CUTS DOWN A WATER OAK AND YOU GOTTA REPLACE IT WITH AN OAK.

I WOULD SUBMIT TO YOU. I'LL TAKE A SYCAMORE. YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH I HATE SYCAMORE.

BUT I THINK WE NEED TO REALLY DECIDE WHAT WE WANT TO PROTECT.

WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT. I THINK YOU START WITH THE LIVE OAK, AND I'M WILLING TO PUT MY NAME ON LEGISLATION TO PROTECT THE OLDEST OF THOSE TREES.

SO THAT'S ALL I'M GOING TO SAY ON THAT MATTER.

OTHER COMMENTS? QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER? GO AHEAD.

YOU WERE. OH. I'M SORRY. OKAY. I'M SORRY THE LAWYER'S NOT HERE.

I HAD A SUGGESTION FROM SOMEONE WHO SAID, WHY DON'T WE FREEZE ALL THE TREE PERMITS UNTIL WE WORKED ALL THIS OUT? I SAW THAT. OKAY, SO I WONDER, CAN WE DO THAT?

[00:40:01]

I DIDN'T THINK SO, BUT I THOUGHT. YOU CAN DO THAT.

SINCE WE DON'T HAVE COUNCIL SITTING HERE TONIGHT, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO ASK HIM.

BUT I'M BETTING HE WOULD SAY THAT'S PROBLEMATIC.

YEAH. OKAY? NOW, WHERE YOU'VE SEEN CITIES FREEZE OR PUT A MORATORIUM ON PERMITS IS WHEN YOU HAVE A HEALTH ISSUE, LIKE YOUR SEWER SYSTEM IS NOT ADEQUATELY FUNCTIONING AND YOU LITERALLY CAN'T PUT ANOTHER SEWER TAP IN BECAUSE IT'S UNHEALTHY.

BUT A TREE IS A DIFFERENT THING. SO I'M BETTING COUNCIL WOULD SAY THIS IS PROBLEMATIC, BUT WE COULD ASK HIM.

YEAH. OKAY.

SO, SAVANNAH, GEORGIA, AND I KNOW IT'S A DIFFERENT STATE ENTIRELY, OBVIOUSLY.

TAKING A LOOK AT THE WAY THEY MANAGE THEIR TREE CANOPY MIGHT BE SOMETHING WE COULD LOOK INTO.

THEY HAVE FOUNDATIONS. WHO IS THIS? SAVANNAH.

YOU GO INTO SAVANNAH AND YOU'RE WALKING THROUGH ANOTHER ANCIENT TOWN, YOU KNOW.

AND THEY'RE VERY FORWARD THINKING WITH THEIR GREEN SPACES AND THOSE TREES.

AND THEY HAVE TREES THAT THEY PROTECT THAT HAVE BEEN THERE HUNDREDS OF YEARS OLDER THAN OURS.

AND THEY HAVE ORDINANCES THAT ARE PRETTY HEFTY AS WELL THAT IMPACT COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY REGARDING THE AREAS OF CONCERNS AND IMPROVEMENTS, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE AFTER THE FACT PERMITS, I JUST SAT THROUGH A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BOARD WHERE SOME FAMILY WAS GIVEN A PRETTY HEFTY MITIGATION FEE THE POOR TAKING DOWN TREES THAT WERE ACTUALLY NOT ON THEIR PROPERTY, I THINK.

AND IT WAS LESSENED EVEN MORE BECAUSE THE FEE WAS SO WAS IT WAS AN INTERESTING TAKE.

SO EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE SET IN OUR ORDINANCES TO HAVE HEAVY FEES, OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE ON THEIR PROPERTY OR, YOU KNOW, FOR WHATEVER REASON, BUT THEY DID TAKE THEM DOWN. AND THEN THE CITY WASN'T ABLE TO EVEN COLLECT THE AFTER THE FACT PERMIT.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, IF WE DO CONTINUE WITH THIS LIST OF OF NINE PROBLEMATIC SITUATIONS, BUT THEN WE DON'T ENFORCE IT, THEN WHAT GOOD IS THAT? YES. GO AHEAD. COMMISSIONER RING BROUGHT UP SAVANNAH TO ME, AND I DID SOME RESEARCH AND A PREVAILING IMPEDIMENT TO US BEING LIKE SAVANNAH WHEN WE GROW UP, IT'S A FLORIDA LEGISLATURE.

WHAT I THOUGHT, AND THAT'S THE FIRST ONE LISTED ON THE CONCERNS HERE, BECAUSE THEY CAN TAKE IT DOWN AS LONG AS THEY CAN PROVE THAT IT WAS UNSAFE OR DANGEROUS WITHOUT A PERMIT. YOU KNOW, AND AS I'M SURE ALL MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS AND MAYOR HAVE READ THE NEWS ARTICLES AND WHAT THE PUBLIC HAS TO SAY, THE MAJORITY OF THEM DON'T MENTION THAT OUR HANDS ARE TRULY TIED ON A MUNICIPALITY LOCAL LEVEL BY OUR STATE.

ONE OTHER THING, SAVANNAH, HAS FOCUS ON THE ROOT ZONES AND THERE ARE SOME OPPORTUNITIES THERE FOR US, I THINK, THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED. SURE.

I MEAN. WORKING WITH NONPROFITS MIGHT BE AN OPTION TOO, YOU KNOW, IF WE KNOW THAT LIKE THAT PROPERTY ON WEST 1ST STREET, IF WE KNEW IT WAS AVAILABLE, IF WE COULD HAVE PURCHASED IT RIGHT FROM UNDERNEATH THE DEVELOPER.

OR A DEVELOPER IF THEY'RE SUBDIVIDING IT, THEY'RE NOT TELLING US SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION.

BUT THIS IS PERHAPS ONE OF THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASONS WHY WE NEED TO HAVE A SURVEY.

YES. BECAUSE ONCE WE'VE IDENTIFIED WHERE THESE REALLY IMPORTANT TREES ARE LOCATED, WE CAN PAY CLOSE ATTENTION AND WE MIGHT ACTUALLY SNAG ONE BEFORE A BAD DECISION. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, HOW MANY. MAYOR, HOW OFTEN DO WE ALL RECEIVE A TEXT FROM SOMEONE OFFERING TO BUY OUR PROPERTY? I MEAN, ALL THE TIME. SO THEY KNOW. I MEAN, WE COULD BE THAT FORWARD THINKING OR PARTNER WITH A NONPROFIT WHO HAS, YOU KNOW, THE FUNDS SORT, LIKE NORTH FLORIDA LAND TRUST DOES.

I MEAN, THAT'S HOW WE WERE ABLE TO ACQUIRE SELVA MARINA AND THE PRESERVE AND HOW WE WERE ABLE TO ACQUIRE RIVER BRANCH PRESERVE OVER THERE.

[00:45:02]

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T DO THAT WITH EVERYTHING, BUT THE GREEN SPACES AND SAVANNAH.

IF FLORIDA LEGISLATION IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE OUR DEMISE, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TRUMP EVERYTHING WE DO HERE LOCALLY, THEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD LOOK INTO.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR TREE MITIGATION FUND IS, IF IT COULD EVEN TOUCH SOME OF THOSE PROPERTIES, I'M SURE WE CAN'T EVEN USE IT TO OFF OUR SELVA PRESERVE.

COMMISSIONER, I'LL GET TO YOU IN A SECOND. LET ME JUST COMMENT ON IT.

AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO USE THAT LOOPHOLE, I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF COMPLIANCE TOO. SO, AMANDA, YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE GETTING FOR ARBORIST LETTERS THAT EXEMPT BECAUSE THE TREE IS DISEASED OR A RISK AND SO ON. BUT AREN'T MOST PEOPLE ACTUALLY COMPLYING WITH OUR TREE ORDINANCE AND PAYING INTO THE FUND OR REPLACING WITH CALIPER INCHES AND SO ON? I WOULD SAY THE DEVELOPERS THAT DEVELOP HERE FREQUENTLY ARE.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S A LOT OF ARBORISTS OUT THERE THAT WORK FOR THE SAME TREE COMPANY THAT PROBABLY DO NOT HOLD THEMSELVES TO THE SAME ISA STANDARDS THAT OUR ARBORIST DOES. AND LEGITIMATE ARBORIST I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THEY WILL COME OUT FOR $150, WRITE YOU A LETTER AND REMOVE ANYTHING YOU WANT ON SITE.

SO I THINK WE GET A LOT UNFORTUNATELY REMOVED THAT TRULY AREN'T A.

WE KNOW THAT. BUT I'VE HAD NUMEROUS CITIZENS ASK ME ABOUT REMOVAL OF A TREE, AND IN MY CONVERSATION, IT'S CLEAR TO ME THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THEY CAN CHEAT THE SYSTEM.

AND OF COURSE, I'M NOT HERE TO HELP THEM FIGURE THAT ONE OUT.

BUT I THINK MOST PEOPLE FIND OUT WHAT THE RULES ARE.

GOTTA HAVE A PERMIT. AND IT IS, QUITE FRANKLY, BEYOND ME THAT SOMEBODY WOULDN'T THINK TO ASK THE CITY BEFORE CUTTING DOWN TREES.

I'M SORRY, THAT ONE. AND BY THE WAY, DON'T WE NOW HAVE TWO SIGNS IN THE CITY THAT SAY TREE CITY USA ON THE WAY IN? YES. IT SAYS CALL BEFORE YOU CUT BELOW. BEFORE YOU CUT.

SO I'M NOT GOING TO THINK THAT IS A REASONABLE EXCUSE, BUT.

ANYWAY, SO. YES, SIR. YEAH. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY WHEN I DID HAVE MY MEETING WITH SARAH, WE TALKED ABOUT THE TREE INVENTORY AND SHE MENTIONED THE COST WAS AROUND $100,000.

I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO GET A GRANT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I ALSO.

FOR THE MITIGATION? NO. TO FUND A TREE INVENTORY.

OH, I SEE. YEAH. I'M SORRY. AND THAT'S PROBABLY EVERY SINGLE TREE, RIGHT? THAT WE HAVE. BUT IF WE FOCUSED ON THE BIGGER TRIES INITIALLY, AND MAYBE FIND A WAY TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO SELF-REPORT THOSE TREES. BUT WE TALKED SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE WEST 1ST SITUATION AND THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD KNOWN.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A LOT THAT´S ELIGIBLE FOR SUBDIVISION.

YOU KNOW, THE SETBACKS BECAUSE OF THE MARSH AND OTHER THINGS PUT THIS TREE AT RISK, YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE PROACTIVELY POTENTIALLY TO SAVE THAT TREE? AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT WORK HAS TO GO INTO THAT TO EVEN GET TO THAT POINT, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF WORK, BUT THAT'S THE KIND OF THING, YOU KNOW, UNTIL WE KNOW WHERE THESE TREES ARE, THEIR SITUATION. BUT THEIR LOT, IF IT'S VACANT, IF IT'S NOT.

ALL THOSE THINGS. IT'S HARD TO JUST THINK OF ONE THING TO SAVE EVERYTHING.

BECAUSE AS WE'VE ALL SAID, YOU KNOW, THE STATE HAS THE FINAL SAY.

WELL, IF THEY'RE INVOLVED. YEAH. OTHER COMMENTS? QUESTIONS? OKAY. WELL, THIS IS A BEGINNING. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OPEN FORUM FOR CITIZEN INPUT AT THE NEXT TOWN HALL. AGAIN, THAT DATE IS SATURDAY, APRIL 18TH.

SO LET YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS KNOW AND LET'S HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION.

ANY OTHER BUSINESS? JUST TAKE A MOMENT. THINK ABOUT IT. THANK YOU.

OKAY, ONE OTHER THING KIND OF INTERESTING AND KIND OF SOMETHING I LEARNED RECENTLY.

THERE'S NOW DRONE TECHNOLOGY. THAT IS AMAZING.

OKAY? BY THAT, I MEAN, YOU GO OUT AND YOU WANT TO DO A TREE STUDY.

YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE, YOU KNOW, PATTERNS, ROOT.

I MEAN, NOT TO THE GROUND, BUT THERE'S SOME TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE THAT IS CUTTING EDGE THAT CAN,

[00:50:01]

YOU KNOW, REALLY GIVE US A PICTURE OF EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING, YOU KNOW.

OKAY. YES, MA'AM. IF I MAY, I JUST WANTED TO SAY I REALLY APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION AND SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, CREATIVE SUGGESTIONS THAT YOU'RE PUTTING FORWARD.

AND ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOES COME TO VARIANCES TO SAVE A TREE, I THINK THAT CHAPTER 24, WHICH REALLY ISN'T THE PURVIEW OF THE ESC, IS LARGELY SILENT ON THAT. YEAH. AND THERE PROBABLY ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE, YOU KNOW, VARIANCES TO PRESERVE A TREE. SO I THINK THAT COULD REALLY BE A KEY.

AND ALSO JUST HAVING A SHIFT IN FOCUS WHERE PROTECTING TREES IS PRIORITIZED INSTEAD OF ORDINANCES BEING SILENT.

IN FERNANDINA BEACH, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH HAS A VERY ENVIABLE CANOPY, IN THEIR TREE ORDINANCE, THEY SAY EVERY EFFORT SHALL BE MADE TO SAVE THE TREE.

AND SO THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU JUST MAKE THAT A PRIORITY IN THE CODE.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT. I THINK YOU'RE SPOT ON.

AND SO WHETHER IT'S THE CDB OR CITY STAFF OR BOTH, THEY NEED TO HAVE CLEAR DIRECTION OR ELSE WE'LL NEVER UTILIZE THAT SOLUTION.

SO, CITY MANAGER, YOU GOT IT? SURE. THANK YOU.

YEAH I HAD A LOT OF NOTES. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT.

IF THERE'S NO FURTHER BUSINESS, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.